Coping with ADHD as a Mom from The Balanced Parent Podcast with Guest Host Laura Froyen, PhD - Best of Friends Series #197
When was the last time your ADHD affected your kids and you were kicking yourself for it?
While you get frustrated enough that your ADHD affects your own life, it's 100 times worse when it hurts your kids. Meet my friend, Laura Froyen, PhD. Laura and I connected over our mutual love for advocating for kids. Her take on gentle parenting is refreshing and doable.
In this episode, Laura and I chat about how to deal with ADHD as a mom on her podcast, The Balanced Parent Podcast, where she helps families connect more deeply and authentically.
Laura writes:
ADHD is getting a lot of buzz out there in the world recently, and many adults, especially women (who as girls perhaps had their symptoms overlooked) are getting diagnosed, sometimes alongside their kids. I've spoken to quite a few of you who have gone through this process and so many of you have expressed initial feelings of relief, that there is a real, true reason that things have always seemed a bit harder for you, and it's not because you're a failure, you're just wired a bit differently. But after that relief there tends to be a feeling of... "Ok, what now?"
So, if you're newly diagnosed with ADHD , or even if you have some suspicions that this may be going on for you or your kids, this episode is for you! I have brought in a friend and a colleague, Patricia Sung, who is an ADHD expert and the host of the Motherhood in ADHD podcast. She helps moms with ADHD get themselves together one step at a time and feel confident in running their family life. After years of serial entrepreneurship and teaching middle school, she has a uniquely practical perspective on strategies for building a life that works when your brain is different.
Whether you have it yourself and it complicates your life or if you're noticing it in your kids, Patricia will help us figure out how to make things a little bit easier for you.
Here's what we talked about:
Learn about your (or your child's) brain and how your ADHD affects you (or your child)
Recognizing you need help and finding the right person (therapist/coach)
Common symptoms of ADHD that we need to look out for
How ADHD affects your motherhood
Strategies to help overwhelmed moms
Be sure to subscribe to The Balanced Parent Podcast!
Laura’s website: https://www.laurafroyen.com/
Laura’s instagram: @laurafroyenphd
Laura’s Facebook – Laura Froyen, PhD
Laura’s previous Episode 122: Tantrums or ADHD Meltdown? How to Deal with our Children’s BIG Emotions with Dr. Laura Froyen
While I’m slowing down for the summer, making space for more family time and accounting for our emergency construction project, I simply couldn’t leave you hanging for the next few weeks. And my ADHD brain didn’t want to do another vanilla Best Of series… Cue Light Bulb!
Welcome to the Best Of Friends Series, where you are meeting a few of my favorite friends in the podcast community. I’m sharing interviews that I have done on other friends’ podcasts. Not only do you get a new episode, I hope that you’ll find a few shows to add to your podcast queue. There’s a wide variety of topics coming your way, so keep an eye out for a new friend each week of the summer.
You’re not alone.
“This is a chance to invest in yourself and build a community that will empower your future. Worth it!” –ADHD Mama D.B.
Our annual ADHD Moms Luxury Weekend Retreat is coming up October 6-8, 2023 in Houston, Texas! And we hope you’re coming, too!
I’ll take care of all the details - you simply show up and enjoy.
Put it on your calendar now.
Having a circle of moms who support you and believe in you matters. Register for your all-inclusive ticket here: https://www.patriciasung.com/adhd-mom-retreat
Wish you could get a sneak peek before joining? You can!
You’re invited to Successful Mama Meetup’s very first Open House!
Join us on July 26, 2023 for either of our meetups, and meet the other moms, see who you’d hang out with at the retreat, so you know we’re the kinda people you wanna hang out with before you jump in. (hint, we’re pretty amazing IMHO.)
No charge, no pressure. Just come hang out at one or both of the events!
Let me know you wanna come right here and I’ll send you the zoom link.
And since it's on Zoom, everyone can come no matter what part of the world you live in. And for our mamas in Asia and Australia, the second meetup is on Thursday, July 27th for you.
If you’re listening to this episode after July and want to come to the next Open House, join the waitlist, and I’ll let you know next time I host one!
Patricia Sung 00:00
Have you ever been invited to a party and you realize, like you weren't going to know many people there. And so then you like dreaded all the way going up to the event or you talk yourself out of it, so you don't go? Because it's scary to put yourself out there in a situation that like, what if I don't like them? What if they don't like me, and it feels stressful? Well, I don't want you to feel that way about hanging out in this community, Mama. So I am hosting an open house and I want you to come and meet all the mamas. So that you know what kind of people we are, Ps are great, and that you feel comfortable joining in this community. Because if you are thinking about joining successful mama meetups, or thinking about joining the retreat, I want you to know that these are your people, and what better way to do that and actually meet the people. So come join us at our open house, we are hosting an open house in successful mama meetups on July 26, at both of the meeting, so we have two meetings, you can come either one and come meet the moms hang out see what it's like pretty much all the moms who are going on the retreat so far are also part of successful mama meetups. So you'll get the feel for like, Who are these people? What's the vibe? Do I want to hang out with them? Yes, you do. It's gonna be so fun. So come hang out with us. So it's totally no charge free 99 Come hang out at successful mama meetups on July 26, either meeting or come to both. That's really cool, too. Our meetings are twice on Wednesdays, if you're on this side of the Earth that I'm on there at 1230, Eastern and 9pm. Eastern. Or if you're on the other side of the world, then the second meeting actually is your Thursday morning. So if you're in Asia or Australia, it's actually going to be July 27. On Thursday morning, go over to my website at https://www.patriciasung.com/openhouse. It's all one word, o p e n h o u s e and sign up for the link so that you get the Zoom link for either of the meetings or muscle virtual. So anybody can come anywhere in the world to see what time it is on your timezone. And come join us for either one or both of the meetings. For the first 30 minutes, we hang out and get stuff done. So I have help there for like how to plan your week. Or if you just like I just need to get some stuff done in the body doubling helps do that. Like there's no wrong way to show up and do stuff at successful meetups. Did you get something done? Great. That's what we're here for. Okay, so that's the first 30 minutes. And then the second 30 minutes is social time where we hang out, we make it fun, you actually want to show up to the body doubling because you get to hang out with your friends, and meet people who understand how your brain works, and you feel at home. So come join us July 26. And either or both of the meetings, sign up at Patricia sung.com forward slash open house and I can't wait to see your face. And if you are listening to this after July 26. Still go over to that link and see what the next one is. I think I'm gonna do the second. I'll see you then. Okay, onto the episode. Are you overwhelmed by motherhood and barely keeping your head above water? Are you confused and frustrated by how all the other moms make it look so easy. You can figure out how to manage the chaos in your mind, your home or your family. I get your mama, parenting with ADHD is hard. Here is your permission slip to let go of the Pinterest worthy visions of organization and structure fit for everyone else. Let's do life like our brains do life creatively, lovingly and with all our might. When we embrace who we are and how our brains work, we can figure out how to live our lives successfully, and in turn, lead our families well, at the end of the day, we just want to be good moms. but spoiler alert, you are already a great mom. ADHD does not mean you're doomed to be a hot mess mama, you can rewrite your story from shame spiral to success story. And I'll be right here beside you to cheer you on. Welcome to motherhood in ADHD. Hey there successful mama. It's your friend Patricia Sung. Welcome to our summer best of series. Now over the summer, I'm going to be taking a break to slow down a little bit hanging out more with my kids. I'm also managing and like why am I saying slowing down there is no slowing down. I just have to reshift priorities here, hanging out my kids dealing with all of the construction project that's been going on. It has been a lot this spring and I realized like I gotta let up this summer in order to be able to do all the things shifting some stuff around so it's like how do I still deliver great content but also like not just do the same old same old cars Hello ADHD. So here's what we're doing. I am going to be sharing some friends with you. So while I will sprinkle in a couple of episodes From my own podcast, I chose some of the ones that were like the most popular downloads in the last few months. But I think that they are the most popular downloaded episodes because they cover a lot of the like basic things that we need to know about our ADHD. And we could use a little reminder sometimes of just the basic things. But I'm more excited about introducing you to some of my friends, I have asked several of my podcasting friends to share the interview that I did on their podcast, so that you can get to know not only you still get to hear from me about ADHD and whatever their like podcast is focusing on, but that I want you to be able to meet some other really great podcast host. Most of these are women, most of these are moms who are doing great things in the world. And I love what they're doing. I want to support them. And I want you to have really great podcasts in your feed that are they're supporting you and showing you who you can be and like bringing more light and wonderfulness and fun to your summer as you are doing your mom thing and trying to juggle all the things. So welcome to the best of series. And let's dive into today's episode. Now this episode is quite the deviation from the norm, you don't normally get business coach Patricia. But that's what you got today. And even though this episode is from 2021, it has a wealth of business knowledge in here. And bear with me because this is a live episode. So you got all of the liveness right in there. Today, I'd like you to meet my friend Laura. Dr. Laura Froyen is a wealth of knowledge around parenting and gentle parenting and understanding like how do we really connect into our kids? How do we build that relationship solidly and like, have balance between raising them to be good people, and helping them be more truly and authentically themselves. I love how she balances the hard things. And for sure, go back and listen to episode 122, where she joined us here on the podcast and we talked about the difference between tantrums and meltdowns and really digging into that connection as that connection in the parent child relationship. These we also talked about, like you staying regulated when your kids are losing it. In this episode on Laura's podcast called the balanced parent podcast. We talk about having ADHD as a mom, which Dr. Laura knows because she also is an ADHD mama, the balanced parent podcast is for you if you're feeling disconnected and overwhelmed and stressed as a parent and you want to find the tools and mindset shifts and practices so that you can stop yelling at the people that you love and start connecting on a deeper level. And she does all of this with a huge heaping dose of grace and compassion. Be sure to go subscribe to the balanced parent podcast. So here we go. Let's have a chat with Dr. Laura Froyen about having ADHD as a mom.
Dr. Laura Froyen 08:24
parenting is often lived in the extremes. It's either great joy or chaotic overwhelm. In one moment, you're nailing it and the next you're losing your cool. I want to help you find your way to the messy middle to a place of balance. You see balance a verb not a state of being. It is a thing you do not a thing you are. It is an action, a process a series of micro corrections that you make each and every day to keep yourself feeling centered. We are never truly balanced. We are engaged in the process of balancing. Hello, I'm Dr. Laura Froyen. And this is the balanced parent podcast where overwhelmed stressed out and disconnected parents go to find tools, mindset shifts and practices to help them stop yelling at the people they love. And start connecting on a deeper level. All delivered a heaping doses of grace and compassion. Join me in conversations that will help you get clear on your goals and values and start showing up in your parenting. Your relationships your life with open hearted authenticity and balance. Let's go Hello everybody. This is Dr. Laura Froyen and on this episode of the balanced parent podcast we are going to be demystifying ADHD, whether you have it yourself and it complicates your life as a parent. Or if you're noticing some of that coming up for your kids. We're going to dig into it and figure out how to make things a little easier in your life. And to help me with this conversation I'm bringing in a friend and colleague and an ADHD expert Patricia Sung. Patricia, welcome to the show. I'm so excited to have you here. Thanks for coming. Why don't you tell us a little bit more about who you are and what you do? Thank you,
Patricia Sung 10:14
I'm so excited. Okay, I am formally a middle school teacher. And all paths lead down this crazy path where everything came together. And now I've taken my background with teaching and having ADHD myself and put it all together. And now I teach moms how to live well with their ADHD. And that comes from just for myself, when I had my kids I couldn't find much like any kind of resources on how like, like, I was struggling so much, and I couldn't find anything to help me. And it was a clear moment of like, if not you then who. And so now I have a podcast called motherhood and ADHD. And it's been almost three years now that's been going, which is crazy to think three years well, and I teach classes on how to get your crap together for moms like understanding how we can make daily routines that makes sense for us that are mom friendly, but also ADHD friendly, and just putting together those pieces to understand who you are and how your brain works. And how do you make a life that works for you, given that your brain is different? And there's a good chance that also one or more of your kids also has a brain that's different? And how do you make that work for your family?
Dr. Laura Froyen 11:34
Can we talk a little bit about that, then, like, what is different about a brain with ADHD? And how does it impact your daily life?
Patricia Sung 11:42
So it's interesting, because, I mean, obviously, we can't look inside brains. For five. So you know, a lot of it is a little bit mysterious in that, you know, if they started poking around your brain, you'd be done. So they don't do. Of course, a lot of what we do, you know, what we're looking at is theory, and you know, quality scientific research, and we're making our best guesses. But in this simple version is that it's a neurological medical condition, and our brains connect in a different way. So it structurally, our brain is different than other people. But more importantly, is how it affects your life. So when you're looking at your overall life, ADHD affects every part of your day of your life, your relationships, your work, your parenting, every single part of your life is affected by ADHD. So there's no safe haven or, you know, timeout area where it doesn't affect how you function and how you interact with people. And you can see that in a lot of different ways. Practically speaking, there's the obvious stuff that we always hear about where you know, some people are more hyperactive, and you see their energy in a physical manifestation. You see them moving, you see that five year old kid who's jumping off things and can't sit still, and it's running around. But that's only a sliver of what it is. There's also hyperactivity in your mind where your brain always is going, your thoughts are always moving. A lot of times that looks like anxiety, or obsessive compulsive thoughts and intrusive thoughts that come in where your brain just never stops moving, it's always going and it feels very loud in your head. You can see that in the lack of planning skills and a lack of organization and having trouble prioritizing.
Dr. Laura Froyen 13:30
Can I just jump in? Like, why is that hard for folks with ADHD, to organize the plan? Yeah,
Patricia Sung 13:37
our executive function is not so great. And that is like the conductor of the orchestra for your brain. So while you might really have a fabulous woodwind section, or maybe your drums are just on point, when you put them all together, they don't sync up well, and they have trouble coordinating with each other. So while you might be really good at keeping things organized, like in this small box, when you look at it in the bigger picture, you struggle with doing the multiple things at the same time. So like, if you're working on see you're cooking dinner, and then your kids interrupt you with some kind of question. And then you forget the dinner and you go help them with their homework and all of a sudden dinners burning isn't your conductor couldn't do all the things at the same time. So dinner got forgotten because your attention shifted to homework problems, or someone fighting or Hey, quit jumping out that thing. And your brain just doesn't do all the things at the same time. Well, so we're not good multitaskers, if you will, and that's really hard as a parent because that is parenting. Parenting is multitasking. The whole concept of multitasking is a lie, right? It's your brain shifting from task to task. Your brain actually can't do that many like they can't do multiple things at one time. But some people are much better at shifting back and forth. Something like dinner. So Okay, kids are eating dinner. So Okay, kids reading. And for people with ADHD, it's like, once we switched away from dinners, okay, we head down the path of homework, and we never remember to circle back to the dinner is okay. So our brain functions differently. And that's a really good thing for a lot of stuff. But it's a huge struggle in other ways. And usually, that's the part that we see when we have it is all the struggles and how it is making our life really difficult and how it's hurting the people around us. And a lot of times, we don't feel like there's much strength to it, it really just feels like a detriment, and in a really big struggle to overcome. So,
Dr. Laura Froyen 15:46
so a lot of adults, especially women who are under diagnosed when it comes to ADHD, as children are much less girls are much less likely to be diagnosed with ADHD to have it recognized. And we're very good at passing in that way. I think that that's getting better, but it's not there yet. And so for lots of us who are adults, and we start hearing someone like you start talking about symptoms or ways to know that you might have ADHD, it can be like, yes, okay, so this is explaining a lot. This is explaining why things are so hard for me why things that seem easy for other people are not easy for me, maybe nothing is wrong with me, maybe I just have a difference in how my brain works. And so if for those parents who are kind of waking up to like, oh, wow, this is something that's been there my whole life. And now I'm just recognizing it, what is the next step for them, and making their life a little bit easier.
Patricia Sung 16:40
So I always recommend, first that you talk to a professional who understands ADHD, and look at getting a diagnosis. And a lot of people will say like, oh, I don't really need a diagnosis, because fill in the blank, whatever reason is, but I always recommend that first because ADHD comes with so many. I like to call them friends or friends, things like anxiety and depression. And a lot of times women will be diagnosed with those or chronic fatigue or bipolar, like the list goes on. And we get all these other mental health diagnoses, because those are the things that are screaming and needing attention. But the root of them, that's the ADHD, if you're dealing with your ADHD, then you're able to so much better deal with all the other things. So the first place to start is to find someone who truly understands adult ADHD, which is I understand sometimes it feels like looking for a unicorn. But finding somebody who can truly tell you like, is this what you're dealing with? And also, what other things are you dealing with? Because it becomes this like tangled necklaces, not don't deal with all the whole picture and you're just trying to fix one necklace. It's like, well, but now you're tingling for seven other necklaces that are in the ball with it. So you can't really deal with just one. Like you can't just deal with the anxiety and just okay, well, I'm just going to take this anxiety medicine and that that's going to solve my problem. No, you have anxiety because you're so stressed about forgetting something, or your mind is always going well. If you deal with the root, then you can, you know, yeah, like domino out. So that's the first step is seeing one who can help you and figure out what else you're dealing with. Because it's rarely ever just ADHD.
Dr. Laura Froyen 18:32
So how do you go about finding someone like that? I think that this is one of the biggest struggles when you're recognizing you need help finding the person who's right for you. How do you go about finding someone as a therapist, who is well versed in adult ADHD? Like what do you even look for?
Patricia Sung 18:51
First, if you can find a referral, that's really the best place to start is to find someone else with ADHD who says yes, I like my doctor. Right? If you are like if you're not comfortable asking around or you don't feel it's funny, because people are like, well, I don't know anyone else who's dealing with this. And I'm like, well, there's like almost 10% of the population that does so chances are you do they just haven't said anything, either, is that if you're not comfortable speaking up or sharing yet? Because it's still like super scary. And you're not sure like, Do I even want to admit this out loud is that you can contact your insurance provider and then like start with that name and just call the offices and ask like, do you deal with adult ADHD if they don't like next new person because really is something that's not really taught in medical school. It's not really taught in like the basic of like anyone who's helping people on mental health. It's just not an in depth subject on anyone's study. So unless that person had a reason to dive into it, or they've worked in their practice for many years, they got like one page in a textbook in one class. us in school, and that's it. It's not the medical professionals fault that they don't have that experience. Because, you know, if they weren't taught in school, they weren't taught in school. But that doesn't mean that you should suffer with subpar care. Because like, one of the things that I always say is like, you don't go see the podiatrist for, you know, a heart issue, or you don't ask your dentist to look at your ankle, like you want to see the professional that truly understands and is experienced with that area. And they do exist, it's just a matter of finding.
Dr. Laura Froyen 20:32
Yeah, one thing that I don't know about you, but I found helpful is for those therapists that if you're looking on like their, their Psychology Today, profile, there are some therapists who lifts just a few specialties, you can tell that they're really specialized, whereas there's other ones who are casting a wide net, you know, with their tags and their interests and their focuses. And they have, they list everything. And you don't want one of the people who lists everything, right, you want a true specialist. So if they've got ADHD and anxiety on their profile, and nothing else, like that's what they specialize in, that probably is a good person to give a call, you know, versus someone who's got, you know, all every mental health disorder that you can have listed on their page. So specificity is a good place to start to.
Patricia Sung 21:18
And like you said, like, if you're not sure, if you can't like, if it's not obvious on their website, if you just call and say like, literally ask one question like, Do you have experience in this yes or no. And move along, like, I know, people that he would be making phone calls, but finding the right person, because you will save yourself like hours of heartache, all the money that you're spending, like you are paying this person for their expertise. And then if they don't have expertise, don't pay?
Dr. Laura Froyen 21:42
Yes, absolutely.
Patricia Sung 21:44
Take someone who truly understands you. And even if you find someone who's an ADHD specialist, and you're like, Oh, I just don't gel with this person. It's okay. Like, I find another one. It's all right. Like, you don't have to love every person, you don't have to love the first person that you meet.
Dr. Laura Froyen 22:02
Yeah, like from a therapists perspective to like the good therapists will not take that personally, you will not hurt our feelings. We all know that the research on the therapeutic alliance, the relationship between therapist and client is the most important factor in change and outcomes and good outcomes. And so if a therapist is worth their stuff, a good therapist will be like, Oh, it's not jiving for you. Is it something that I can fix? Or is it something where you need you need help finding someone else who does jive with you? Like that's what a good therapist will respond to you if they take it personally, if they, you know, if they get defensive? Like, you're better off moving along. Okay. And so, you know, we've been talking a lot about grownups with ADHD. But often, as you said before, you know, if we, if we ourselves have some neuro differences, our brain works a little bit differently, you know, we sometimes pass that along to our kids. Can we talk a little bit about like, I feel like it can be obvious. On some levels, we have these kind of obvious markers for ADHD, that we think are is ADHD in kids. And I sometimes think that like, sometimes we see very typical, like five year old behavior, five year olds can't sit still in kindergarten. And like, that's not necessarily ADHD, you know, the five year olds not supposed to sit still, the kindergarten is the problem, not the kid, because they we shouldn't expect five year olds to sit in desks at all, is this not developmentally appropriate? So I think it's important to look at the context, is the context developmentally appropriate? Do we have developmentally appropriate expectations? But what are some of the things that you know, you know, when that should start pinging the are apparently ADHD alarm bells in their brains?
Patricia Sung 23:45
The obvious things are obvious, the parts that get construed into something else are the ones that you really want to be looking for. And the best, like umbrella term would be emotional dysregulation. And that's when your emotions are not regulated. So your emotions are all over the place. When you either yourself or your kid you watch them go from like zero to 60. Over what to you feels like nothing. Seems really silly. Why are you even upset about this? Why are you being so dramatic? Why are you upset? Like if those words are coming out of your mouth? Like, right there,
Dr. Laura Froyen 24:21
but and to just to be super clear that there's a difference between this with older kids and younger kids. So two year olds, three year olds, they do lose it over really small things. We're talking about older children here. And so I mean, the, the diagnosis like age for ADHD is seven. Really, we shouldn't you know, so younger kids will, you know, losing over small stuff, right?
Patricia Sung 24:46
That's a hard part for parents. Usually you don't have anyone to compare to. Yeah, besides your kid, like unless like for me, like I'm a teacher. I've worked with lots of kids. So for me, it's a little bit easier to pick out what makes sense and what doesn't, but it's hard as a parent when You haven't worked with a lot of kids to know like, is this a thing that kids do? Or is this a red flag? So you always want to look at that. Yeah, that age range of like, Does this make sense? For a three year old? Yeah, three year olds get mad about all kinds of stuff. It's like, well, you know, my spaghetti is too wiggly,
Dr. Laura Froyen 25:18
I'll never be able to like, look inside my stomach, like, yes, no honey, but she will never be able to see inside your stomach. I know. It's terrible.
Patricia Sung 25:29
But like, when you start getting it, like you said, usually, you can diagnose ADHD a little bit younger than that. But it's harder, because again, the red flags are developmentally appropriate, when you're three or four, but when you get to be, you know, seven, and eight, and your child is losing it over something that seems silly to you, that's a red flag where they don't have the brake system, to slow down the emotions, and do what we would consider like, having like a thoughtful process about it, they don't have that skill, they're learning that skill. But when you're seeing kids who are like seven, and eight, and even, like, into teenage years,
Dr. Laura Froyen 26:10
where that skill should have come online, yeah, and
Patricia Sung 26:13
their brain just, like zooms in and like every input that they're taking in, the reaction comes out faster than they're able to consider it, to think about it, like, the rude words just fall out of their mouths, the yelling, just seems to, like appear out of nowhere. That's one of the biggest red flags to me when we look at that, like we get into like elementary and teenagers is that emotional dysregulation where they literally do not have the ability to slow down those feelings. And as hard as it is to parent that and to deal with it as the grown up. Like flipside, imagine being the person who control the feelings and like sees the train flying down the hill with no brakes, and knows there's going to be a big crash at the end and yet not being able to stop it. It is gut wrenching. And I mean, even now, like I mean, I almost for me, and there are times where I'm like, Oh, this is not going well, like I can see myself losing it. And now I'm aware enough that it's almost like an out of body experience. Like I see myself falling apart. And I want to stop it. But yet somehow my brain can't. And it's like the angry words are flying out the grownups. Really, it's actually a grown up meltdown. Like we talked about that on when you were on my podcast. Mama, are you ready to get away, You are cordially invited to this year's annual retreat are successful as a mother luxury weekend getaway retreat conference amazingness that is happening this October. This is a chance for you to get away and take a break and truly rest for you to learn about your brain in a way that makes sense for you. And most importantly, know that you are not alone and have a real life community of moms who get you we are staying at a beautiful four star hotel. This is an all inclusive event, which means I will handle everything for you. Once you arrive, I take care of your hotel, I take care of your meals that you neither cooked nor cleaned up, nor cut anybody else's food up that you truly get to have a weekend where you take care of you because you deserve rest. You deserve to be taken care of. And I'm going to do that for you at this retreat. So I invite you to go ahead and grab your chicken at www.patriciasung.com/adhd-mom-retreat and let's hang out in person, I cannot wait to meet you. The difference between a tantrum and a meltdown is like when you're losing it, and you can't stop it. Like that's a really hard feeling to be out of control. And where you'll then see that Go is that when our teens or kids or even ourselves when we start to fly off the handle, and we don't know why and we're not sure what's happening, then we start making up crazy excuses. And because we're trying to like explain away like well, I don't know why I just said that or did that. So I'm just gonna make something up because I don't know what the answer is. You know, this is always what happens like when your kid makes a bad decision. You're like, what were you thinking?
Dr. Laura Froyen 29:47
I know, or this is why I think the question why is the least helpful question parents can ask their kids it's generally the response that they think we want to hear or the explanation And, and they often don't know why it rarely gives us actual helpful information. Like, why did that make us upset? Why did you say that to your sister?
Patricia Sung 30:09
Right? Like the level of comprehension that it takes for you to, like, stop and be like, Why did I just yell angry words at that person who cut me off? While I was driving? We don't think about that stuff. Like, it takes a lot of emotional maturity to say like, oh, well, I was really upset, because, like, that's a whole train of thought that like most humans don't have let alone when you're asking like a 10 year old, what were you thinking when you did that? They're like, I don't know. So then they just make up something. And so you'll see that pattern of like, it comes across as lying,
Dr. Laura Froyen 30:44
or excuses or manipulation, like all this
Patricia Sung 30:47
other stuff, it's like, well, but also, as the grown up, like we just asked their kid to do something that they were not capable of doing, what did we expect was going to be the answer?
Dr. Laura Froyen 30:57
Okay, so I think like your big take home message is recognizing that a lot of the problem behaviors that we see big angry outbursts, rude back talk, lying, manipulation, disrespectful language, are the big things that parents really get kind of worked up about that if we're experiencing those a lot. And it seems like our kids can't control it, they just fly off the handle, or it just happens, the things that we need, this should be raising a red flag for us.
Patricia Sung 31:27
I think the biggest part is just understanding how our kids work. And when we understand how an ADHD brain functions, whether that's our brain or their brain, that level of knowledge is so life giving it's there's so much freedom and understanding that we don't have to take it personally. Our kids are not purposefully trying to get as angry, they're not digging at us. They're not trying to cause trouble. They're not lazy, right? They're not lazy. They're not. I will say like, I'm gonna totally go off on tangent here. Like that's one of the things that kills me about like, when I hear parents talking about their kid, like being lazy or not trying. It's like, well, you know what your kids really struggling right now. And it's a lot easier for them to opt out and say, You know what, I'm not good at this. So if I just don't try, I can protect myself, because nobody can criticize me if I don't participate in the same way that like, if I do it, and I mess up, then I feel bad about myself, I feel failure, I feel shame. But if I just act out, and I just don't do it, then I'm getting yelled at for things that it's now my failure. Now I can just be like, Well, I didn't try. So what I've, as opposed to like, I tried and I messed up. And now I've, I'm feeling like the failure plus the shame plus, plus, like, all the emotions that go with that, instead of just like, Well, I'm just gonna opt out. And then I can turtle up and not have to feel any of those feelings. Such a huge coping mechanism. It's a defense mechanism that is very effective when you're struggling. So when I hear those like, Well, my kids just so lazy, and they're not trying Oh, it's like that is your kid telling you that they're really hurting. And it's easier for them to opt out than to try and feel.
Dr. Laura Froyen 33:19
So what does a parent do in that situation? They're hearing this, they're waking up, they're seeing Listen, their kid, what do they do besides getting help? You know, like, literally in the moment.
Patricia Sung 33:29
And also, this depends on your kid's age to like, the way you're going to approach an elementary school aged kid is different than how you'd approach like a teenager. So if your kid is old enough, a lot of it is like just being willing to listen and say, like, I see that you're struggling here, like, can we talk about it. And as the grown up, literally just listening, and not like trying to fill in the blanks or lead them down a path like truly listening, like when you're a kid, especially once they're teenagers, like they bring it up like they think they know everything, and we feel like they know nothing, please do go themselves pretty well. If they feel like you're willing to listen and not judge, they will share with you what they think might work. But they're not going to share that with you if they think you're going to shut them down. Or if they think that you're just going to tell them that's a dumb idea. Or, you know, if you're going to reinforce will, none of those other solutions work because you didn't try it. Like when we start jumping in, it's like well, then they shut down again. And then we're right back where we started. So it's that really, really hard job as a parent to just sit there and listen.
Dr. Laura Froyen 34:44
And stay well regulated and leave your agenda and your theories on why things are the way they are at the door and come in. There's this concept from mindfulness called beginner's mind. And I think it's really an important like posture to embody when you are I'm trying to figure out what's going on for your kid.
Patricia Sung 35:03
And just being curious and being like, I'm not going to try to solve this problem today, I'm just gonna listen and like, think of it kind of like, you know, a scientific research, like put on your lab coat, you're just jotting down your observations, you're not trying to solve the problem, right now I'm just absorbing information, so that I can make a hypothesis later. But right now, like, let me just absorb as much as I can for my child, while they're willing to share with me, because you know, when we have teenagers, that's like a very tiny window. Willing to open up and share. So take advantage and just listen. And like, just as like a side note, a really great way to get your kids to talk is to have them doing some kind of activity with their hands, and up and share so much, when they're doing some kind of, like, whether that's like a hobby, or like a craft or an art or like Lego or any of that, like their hands are doing and their mind is focused on that task. And like, their thoughts and feelings will just like fall out. Oh, okay. Like, didn't see that coming. But it's really beautiful, because it lets their guard down. Because they're focused on the task. But yeah, that's where I would start, besides getting help is just being willing to listen and leaving the judgment at the door, assuming your kid is, you know, old enough for that conversation.
Dr. Laura Froyen 36:31
Absolutely. You know, as we're having this conversation, one of my clients who was just recently diagnosed with ADHD herself as an adult, and has two children who are also diagnosed with ADHD, these diagnosis came in in the last six months, and they're really struggling. So she's been on my mind a lot as we are having this conversation, particularly because in this family's circle, don't really understand even you know, the dad hasn't experienced it himself, he's working really hard to get there and understand how ADHD can be getting in the way of so much because these, it's like you're describing them, and you know, they don't want to go to anything things that they used to like to do, they don't want to do anymore. You know, when they're pushed or pressured, they get explosive, it's textbook, what's happening. And, and it's really hard, I think, for parents to see those things as ADHD, because we think ADHD is just not being able to pay attention in class, you know, it's so much more. So many years
Patricia Sung 37:25
now, all of those things have been described as behavior choices. And being the, like, the key word there is that people are choosing to be lazy and people are choosing it's like, well, I mean, yes, I guess they did choose not to do the thing. But why are they choosing not to do that, like people inherently, we just don't opt out of things on purpose. Like without a reason, there's always an underlying reason when our kids start heading down that path. And I'm beginning to think like, we keep saying like, well understand the difference between it being like a behavior choice and some kind of like problem that they're dealing with. And the more that I see it, the more I'm thinking, like, I don't really know that any of them are like a behavioral choice, like the more than I'm diving into, like the world of ADHD is that I feel like most people like are doing that because they're struggling, because they're not sure what to do because they feel shame, because they are feeling beat down by failure after failure. Is there anyone who's really just choosing to be like a turd human? I don't think so. I feel like pretty much everybody's got some underlying reason when we start heading down that path. So it's a matter of discovering, like, is it ADHD? Or is it some other mental health issue? Or is it that I know that options are endless? But in finding those answers is where we start to find the solutions? Yeah,
Dr. Laura Froyen 38:50
I think you hit on something that's really important is that kids just like grownups are usually doing the best that they can. I mean, I think it's pretty safe to assume that most people at any given point in time are doing the best that they can. And on any given day, their best might be different than it was the day before. Or even any given like hour in the school day, you know, from moment to moment, we're changing our hormonal like, and chemical fluctuations in our bodies are changing. You know, our energy levels are changing our ability to focus or to regulate changes moment to moment through the day. And I think that we come from this place of just a really compassionate, graceful gracious place of it, kids really are doing the best that they can and if this is what they're doing, we can assume that it's really the best they can right then in that moment, maybe not the best that they could yesterday or we'll be able to do tomorrow but right then it's it's really what they have capacity for right now.
Patricia Sung 39:49
It's also important to mention to like, especially when you're dealing with teenage girls is that our hormones have a huge effect on our ADHD. So as you know your daughters are going through puberty and starting their periods. That's a big, big influence on ADHD symptoms. And that's when you'll see, all these things start to pop up. And a lot of times parents are like what's going on? Chalk it up to being, you know, puberty and all that stuff. But we deal with this cycle every month, like it just keeps going every month. And when girls are hitting that age of puberty, it's like, these symptoms that maybe they dealt with, okay before, and they were able to get by with whatever they've learned. All of a sudden, you hit these big hormonal shifts, like puberty or having, you know, a pregnancy and menopause, like, all of a sudden, your ADHD symptoms are, like, blown up with, you know, gasoline. And the same thing of like, throughout your cycle, like you'll see those shifts in, you know, depending on where you are within the different phases, like, your ADHD may be a lot more difficult to deal with, say, like, the week before your cycle, and during your cycle, because your body's doing a lot of hard work in preparation for growing up whole human. Like, we don't appreciate how much our bodies are doing at that time. So you know, our hormones are literally changing every day. So it will make sense that you know, as you're watching your especially your teenage daughter, you're like, Okay, we were fine yesterday, what's happening today, like, all modes are happening. Yeah, it's not like a clear definitive, like, this is how you are all the time. No, like we are women, and we change throughout the month. So you will see those shifts happen. And then the second time you'll really see shifts happen for ADHD symptoms is when we go through a big life change. So when you see your kids switch from elementary to middle, or middle to high school, high school to college, if they start like something very stressful, like maybe they start a highly competitive sport, or like, like, those big shifts in their lives, you're going through something stressful at home, maybe like divorce, or, you know, somebody passes away, you'll see a big shift in ADHD symptoms there too. So big shifts in life, those big stressors are going to affect you as well. So it's not like a linear graph of like, here are your symptoms the same every day is like no, it should look like a roller coaster because life is hard. And it's different every day.
Dr. Laura Froyen 42:21
Yeah, absolutely. Okay, so I just, you know, we're nearing the end of our time together, I kind of just want to circle back to something you said at the very beginning of our chat around. We hear a lot about the negative parts of ADHD, I kind of want to just end on like, what are some of the superpowers? What are some of the things that the positives and the benefit that you experience or that lots of your clients or that kids can experience? By having these uniquely wired brains?
Patricia Sung 42:49
I'm pretty sure that most of the human races major breakthroughs came from somebody with ADHD, like, there's no way somebody with a regular brain was like, Guys, I'm gonna take this kite and CNN in the lightning and see if we can get some electricity. What do you think there's no way, you know, we are the movers and the shakers and the paradigm modifiers and the inventors and the innovators.
Dr. Laura Froyen 43:14
How does that work? Like, what is the mechanism for that?
Patricia Sung 43:18
You know, I'm,
Dr. Laura Froyen 43:19
like, putting you on the spot. Sorry.
Patricia Sung 43:22
I think it's a combination of, we just see things outside of the box. Like, I can see the solution to a problem that no one else sees, like, I just look at things differently. And a lot of times, that's not appreciated. Like you know, when you think about what makes a great mom, you think about like the mom who always makes sure that the permission slips are turned in and always make sure that when she's ready and those like mundane, lame things that, you know, yes, need to get done. But we don't often like and I hate this word to like judge motherhood, I'm like, who had the most fun was like, Hey, you have a question about volcanoes. Let's make a volcano. Like having that impulsivity sometimes really serves us well. And like what happens if we just made a volcano today? Like what kind of amazing learning could we accomplish in that spontaneity? Maybe that means we have to make use of us for dinner again, because I ran out of time to cook and being willing to head down that rabbit hole and you know, I feel like we're all items we're good at sitting with our kids and be like, Okay, you want to talk about dinosaurs for like, two hours all right, like let's get on Google and see what we can find that like indulging that inner child is something that is really beautiful and and under appreciated. So yes, having ADHD is extremely hard. It is so difficult and all the ways that it affects us and you know, the struggles that you have cross the borders, relationships and work. But the different things to find the solution that no one else can come up with, like, that's where our creativity comes in. And maybe society just doesn't appreciate those characteristics just yet. But, you know,
Patricia Sung 45:17
we didn't put a man on the moon, by thinking small. That's beautifully
Dr. Laura Froyen 45:21
said, Patricia, thank you so much for sharing this perspective with us. Where Can folks go to learn more from you.
Patricia Sung 45:29
So I have a podcast called motherhood in ADHD. And you can find that on any podcast platform that you like to have on your phone. And the website is the same to motherhood and ADHD. And there, I teach classes for moms who have, oh, they're struggling with their day. So if you want to learn how to get your crap together, and figuring out like a daily routine that works or like how to keep up with your calendar, and hopefully not be the person that you know, skips your appointment for the fourth time, this month, that's what I love helping moms do is figure out how to build a life that works for them. So I have daily planning for moms with ADHD and time management mastery, for ADHD moms as well. And a really beautiful community we meet every week for the moms have a support group and just know that you're not alone. You're not the only one dealing with this. And it comes with all my classes. So you can come anytime and just be like, Ah, I'm not the only one. So really beautiful community.
Dr. Laura Froyen 46:26
Beautiful. Patricia, thank you so much for crafting that space. I think that more and more, we are realizing that we need to not feel so alone. Yeah. Beautiful. Thank you so much.
Patricia Sung 46:37
Well, thanks so much for having me. I really appreciate it. I'm like, you have such a sweet demeanor. It's like ah, I feel like I like on cloud nine right now.
Dr. Laura Froyen 46:45
Oh, good. I love getting to talk to colleagues and you have a lot of really important things to share. I think that it's important to hold these things to the light. So thanks for that opportunity. Thank you so much. Okay, so thanks for listening today. Remember to subscribe to the podcast. And if it was helpful, leave me a review that really helps others find the podcast and join us in this really important work of creating a parent home that we don't have to escape from and creating a childhood for our kids that they don't have to recover from. And if you're listening and grab a screenshot and tag me on instagram so that I can give you a shout out. And definitely go follow me on Instagram at Laura Froyen PhD. That's where you can get behind the scenes look at what Balanced conscious parenting looks like in action with my family and plus a share a lot of other really great resources there too. Alright, that's it for me today. I hope that you keep taking really good care of your kids and your family and each other, and most importantly of yourself. And just to remember, balance is a verb, and you're already doing it. You've got this.
Patricia Sung 47:57
For more resources, classes and community head over to my website www.motherhoodinadhd.com