What are the symptoms of ADHD in women? When and How to get an Adult ADHD diagnosis with Psychiatrist Dr. Sasha Hamdani #140
What does your ADHD look like?
Does it look like impulsiveness, hyperactivity and the irresistible urge to fidget – the signs we constantly hear about in men and boys?
Or does it look more like forgetting to put on deodorant or brush your teeth, trouble keeping track of all your kid’s appointments, absent-mindedly twirling your hair, or excessive talking when you get excited?
(If you’ve ever gotten “talks too much” on your report card as a kid, you know what I mean!)
ADHD can look different in women – and just because you don’t have the “classic” signs, doesn’t mean you don’t have ADHD.
In this episode of Motherhood in ADHD, Dr. Sasha Hamdani, a board-certified psychiatrist and ADHD specialist, shares about the symptoms of ADHD in women, and SO much more, including:
- Dr. Sasha’s own diagnosis story, and her experience as a mom with ADHD
- ADHD diagnosis in children: how to talk to your kids about their diagnosis in a non-judgmental and supportive way
- When it’s time to seek professional help for your ADHD symptoms
- ADHD and hormones: how your cycle affects your symptoms
- Self-care tips for the emotional side of ADHD
- The benefits of partnering with an ADHD specialist, and how to find the right professional
- How to speak to your loved ones about your ADHD, while clarifying it's an explanation and not an excuse
- Answers to all YOUR burning questions that you shared in our Motherhood in ADHD private Facebook group (P.S. You should join if you haven't yet!)
BIG thanks to Dr. Sasha Hamdani for sharing your wisdom and expertise with us!
To hear more about ADHD from Dr. Sasha, follow her on Instagram: @thepsychdoctormd
To learn more about Dr. Sasha’s psychiatry practice, visit her website: drhamdanimd.com
This material is not intended as medical advice. Please consult your doctor or a trained medical professional to find the treatment plan that best fits your personal situation.
Learn how to feel more put together by organizing your to-do list in an ADHD friendly way, and keeping your commitments to yourself - all part of the Daily Planning for ADHD Moms course. Join here: bit.ly/adhdplan
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Dr. Sasha Hamdani 0:00
If you're dealing with executive function and focus problems, and then on top of that you are hit with a slew of cognitive cloud you feel like you are pushing through mud you feel just low and not interested in being around it. How are you expected to parent or do anything else? Like it's just like that's an added layer of so much complexity?
Patricia Sung 0:22
Are you overwhelmed by motherhood and barely keeping your head above water? Are you confused and frustrated by how all the other moms make it look so easy. You can figure out how to manage the chaos in your mind, your home or your family? I get your mama, parenting with ADHD is hard. Here is your permission slip to let go of the Pinterest worthy visions of organization and structure fit for everyone else. Let's do life like our brains do life. Creatively, lovingly and with all right. When we embrace who we are and how our brains work, we can figure out how to live our lives successfully, and in turn, lead our families. Well, at the end of the day, we just want to be good moms. but spoiler alert, you are already a great mom. ADHD does not mean you're doomed to be a hot mess mama, you can rewrite your story from shame spiral to success story. And I'll be right here beside you to cheer you on. Welcome to motherhood in ADHD.
Patricia Sung 1:29
Hey there successful mama. It's your friend Patricia Sung. This episode's been sitting on my heart for a while and I wanted to give you a really solid episode on what does ADHD look like in women? And when should we go get a diagnosis. But in true ADHD fashion, it felt so big and important that I didn't know where to start. And the other day I was watching Instagram rails and Dr. Sasha was explaining ADHD in these little digestible moments of clear understanding. And I was like, Man, she's exactly what I mean. So I invited Dr. Sasha here to talk with us. What does it look like? And when is the right time to go ask for help. We are talking through your questions. I asked you in our motherhood and ADHD Facebook group. What do you want to ask Dr. Sasha, what do you want to know about the symptoms of ADHD in moms? And we go through what kind of patterns we should we be looking for to know hmm, maybe this is something I need to look into how a lot of us feel like we're tricking our doctor into believing that we have ADHD when we really don't we also talk about the difference between using our ADHD as an excuse or is it the explanation for how we are and who we are and what we do.
Patricia Sung 2:43
We also can't pass up on the glaringly obvious problems of dealing with our hormones. And how do we deal with the emotional rollercoaster that is having ADHD. Dr. Sasha Hamdani is a board certified psychiatrist and an ADHD specialist. This is her bread and butter. This is what she does every day is diagnose people with ADHD, and help them treat it. Let's welcome Dr. Sasha to the show. Thank you so much for being here today. Thank you for having me. I've been excited about this for a while. Obviously, I could ask you 400 questions, but in the shortest ADHD possible way, can you give us like the Reader's Digest version of how you came to find out that you had ADHD? Because that's one of the things I find interesting about your story. I know it's a long one. But that discovery process of like how you were feeling because that's one of the things that a lot of moms really appreciate it just knowing they're not the only one dealing with these.
Dr. Sasha Hamdani 3:40
Oh, yeah, absolutely. So in fourth grade, I was eight or nine, I inserted a revolution in my classroom. So I like got all the kids to stand up on their desks started chanting at a substitute teacher. Shortly after my teacher was like, yeah, we've seen a lot of disruptive behavior, brought it up with my parents. And my mom's a pediatrician got me in to one of her partners, and I was diagnosed to start on medication. My parents are wonderful, highly educated people, but they were also I mean, this isn't a time where ADHD wasn't diagnosed a whole lot. And so they were a little bit concerned about the stigma component of it. And so they didn't tell me and they told me I was taking vitamins and my vitamins were awesome. Like I did really well. I was on the same dose of these vitamins all the way up until the end of high school and I did well enough through my academic schooling, that I got into medical school straight out of high school, but that was out of state so when I got there, I everything kind of fell apart. I didn't know like I literally could not get my bearings. I didn't know how to feed myself. I didn't know how to sleep at a normal time. I obviously wasn't taking my vitamins.
Dr. Sasha Hamdani 4:49
So my parents were like, Okay, if they're actually not vitamins, ADHD medication, this what have you been diagnosed with? So then there was a lot of betrayal and a lot of you know, I just was in denial. I didn't believe that I had that diagnosis, I thought it was for boys. This wasn't anywhere on my radar. And I felt like, you know, I had been drugged into performing. And I just hated the whole aspect of it. And then as I kind of progress through, like, Okay, we actually do have this, this is exactly me. And so then the rest of my journey throughout medical school was trying to figure out and get my bearings and actually come to an understanding of what it looked like and females on what it looked like me, and that kind of propelled me into eventually psychiatry, and then in becoming an ADC, clinical specialist. That's the short version.
Patricia Sung 5:33
Well, and the reason I asked about that is because there are so many parents who struggle with how do I tell my kid, I don't want them to be labeled at school. And like you said, we don't want to throw your parents under the bus. Because parent, we all do our best we do as much as we can with the information we have. And back then I'm assuming you're about the same age as me in the 80s. There was not a lot of information out there. And so what were our parents to do, right? So we like knowing that we're not throwing your parents under the bus? Like, what would you say to parents now who know that their kids have this, but are afraid to have that conversation? And rightly so? Because of all the stuff that comes with it? Yeah, now that you're on the other side of it, what would you tell them?
Dr. Sasha Hamdani 6:13
I've thought a lot about this, I've thought a lot about how this kind of came about. And I thought about my parents decision not to tell me and you know what, I think if I was in their position, I don't know if at that time, I would have done anything differently. So I don't blame them for that. It's gotten me to that point where especially now that I'm a parent myself, we you become more aware of your child's emotional needs as well. And that kind of shifts what you feel like you can disclose to your kid. So as a parent, now, if you're struggling with something like that, if you're like I think my child has ADHD, I've gone through this diagnostic process. And I don't know how to tell them that. Honestly, my thing is, because I have this conversation every single day, in my practice, I think the best way to arm a kid is to tell them what's going on. But phrase it in a way that they can understand it and phrase it in a way that it's not a judgmental thing that they can take ownership and figure out how to navigate that stigma. Because I think rather than having them feel oblivious about it, because I think what my biggest struggle was as I was growing up, if I had known about the ADHD, I think there would have been a lot of times where I wouldn't have felt so isolated or different or alone. And I think that that's something really difficult that a kid has to navigate.
Dr. Sasha Hamdani 7:26
So I think there are benefits, I think the benefits of telling your child that they have ADHD far outweigh the negatives. But I think just how you phrase it know your kid, like if your kid is really scared about being different, then it's something like everybody's brain is wired differently. And so this is just how your brain is wired. So we have to figure out a way how to play out your strengths. So things like that you don't phrase it in a negative light, because the truth be told ADHD, it comes with a lot of things that are not so great. But there's certain strengths that can absolutely be capitalized, and you can be very, very successful with it.
Patricia Sung 8:01
Beautifully put. And that that's often the guidance that I give as well is that without the information, we assume it's us. Yeah, we assume where the problem, and we feel alone, and we don't have the words to put to that struggle. But when you have an answer, it's like, well, you know, what, if people are gonna think I am spacey, they're gonna think I'm spacey, whether I have ADHD, or I don't know, I have ADHD. So if we have the word so that it's really more about my internal struggle as the person and having that knowledge and the ammunition to move forward, as opposed to like, when people don't think what people are gonna think like, yeah, yeah. So where would you say when you think of like, the big picture of motherhood, that your ADHD affects you the most?
Dr. Sasha Hamdani 8:48
Can I give two answers? Because I think it's a tie. I think number one is like the stuff you think about, it's the executive function of all of it, because now I'm not in charge of just taking care of myself, which admittedly can sometimes be a challenge on its own. But now I have to take care of that for two other tiny little humans. And so it is, you know, managing stay on top of doctor's appointments and vaccinations and all of these other tiny minutia that you as an adult, you're just an egg, you put that off, like you can't put it off for a kid. And so it's a matter of staying organized, and especially when you start getting them, my babies one is, well, turning two will be two next week, and the other one is three. And so now, you know, we're entering school for one of them. And so like with the schedule shifts and pick up and drop off, it's just like an added layer of complexity. So I think that is what you would have guessed is a difficult part of motherhood. Honestly, for me, I think one of the other things that I've really struggled with is my whole life. I've known I've wanted to be a parent, like it's from birth, I'm like, This is what I want to do.
Dr. Sasha Hamdani 9:55
And then I was lucky enough to get pregnant and during that pregnancy, like, I was on Pinterest every second of every day like thinking, this is what its gonna look like. And then you become a parent and you're sleep deprived, and you're juggling your own limitations and things like that. And I think one of the things that I've really struggled with is my emotional regulation throughout that because I want to be an active parent, I want to be a present parent, I want to show them and model them good behavior, but there are some, sometimes, I will absolutely lose it, then it's a matter of like, what's my explanation? How do I explain this behavior? And why was this so upsetting to me a piece of because I didn't sleep very well, is it because I'm overwhelmed. So it's learning to kind of trace back and then how to explain that to your kid as well. Because I think to some degree, I try to be very mindful about how I operate with it. Some stuff falls through the cracks.
Patricia Sung 10:53
No, that hit home because I mean, I was a teacher before kids were my job. And I thought I was going to be this amazing mom. And then I got into Bing. And I was like, This is not what I expected. Like, it was so much harder. And the the whole emotional regulation piece is the entire reason that I ended up sticking with my medicine is because it evens me out. And I don't turn into Medusa mom at bedtime. Like, that's the main reason at this point in my life like that is the main reason is to help me deal with that. I understand that more than you'd ever know. And we would you say that your ADHD really shines in being a mom?
Dr. Sasha Hamdani 11:33
I hope this doesn't sound for I again, I am also sleep deprived. So if this sounds bragging, per se, apologize, it's pretty sure everybody listening is too. So don't worry, okay, this could probably be a positive or negative, but I find it to be a positive as of late. It allows me to interact with my kids in a very joyful way. Like I really enjoy playing with them, exploring new things with them. And so my husband will always be like, you're just a fun parent, like it's fun to be around you. Now in terms of maybe I'm the fun parent, because I just can't get the other stuff together well enough so as to take that over. But like asking questions and natural curiosity, and it's fun to see kind of like patterns of my own interest in engagement, mirrored and my kid like, I'm interested in that. And so are you. This is so cool to watch and see and grow together. So I really enjoyed that aspect of it.
Patricia Sung 12:26
So I was thinking about this episode and wanting to dive into like a true understanding of what should we be looking like? Like, there's so many moms that come in to my hemisphere of the internet here, in like, what does ADHD look like? For women like and I've been asked, polled the audience on what kind of questions they wanted to ask you. And one of the most frequent ones was like, When should a man look for a diagnosis? Like how do we know that this is something that I need to look into? Because everyone's ADHD is different? It's not just this whole, like, admitting attention, oh, they're not paying attention. That's what we hear on the like megaphone. But really, there's so much more layers underneath that, like, I when I have been watching your reels recently. I was like, Oh, my goodness, like Dr. Sasha, she's the one I gotta get her on.
Patricia Sung 13:15
I just said a lot of things. So let me roll back one question at a time. The first one is, when a mom opens this door to you know, they open Pandora's box and is like, Whoa, this is what ADHD is. Maybe it's because their kids have it, or the Instagram algorithm has diagnose them by starting to show them all these relatable things. And a mom who's literally just opening this door and is like, Whoa, this is a little too relatable. How does she know it's time to look into getting a diagnosis?
Dr. Sasha Hamdani 13:44
Honestly, if you ask yourself that question, it's time. And the reason I'm saying that is full disclosure, Access to care is such a nightmare and finding a physician and I feel like our system is inherently kind of broken. So the people who need care the most, it's like, most difficult to get to. But if you have access to care if you have insurance, if you have all these things, if maybe the one of the the steps aren't as obscured for you, then if you have a question about whether or not a could be that's a question that you need to kind of bring up to your practitioner it's not you don't have to figure it out on your own before seeing someone you don't have to be like I've fully diagnosed myself and now this is I like if you have questions, a diagnosis of ADHD is very multifactorial and complicated. Like you have to look at your medical background, you would have to look at psychodynamic features, you have to look at other interplay of medications and other psychiatric phenomenon. So there's so many other things going on.
Dr. Sasha Hamdani 14:41
Having a trained clinical, like a physician or a therapist or someone who can diagnose you and then potentially treat you is so vital because they will synthesize all the information that you have floating around in your head. And maybe you go there and they're like, No, this isn't ADHD. What they should be giving you is they should be giving. You have an adequate explanation for why you're having those symptoms. If they try to tell you that's just being a mom that doesn't count doesn't count as an adequate explanation. I'm talking about, like, if you're having difficulty focusing or difficulty completing tasks, and they're like, No, it's definitely not ADHD.
Dr. Sasha Hamdani 15:16
Then tell me what is it that why am I doing that? Is it because I have an underlying anxiety? Is it because my depression isn't fully treated is because I have this external stress that's preventing me from sleeping like there are things like that you just have to kind of work with someone to amalgamate that information. But you don't need to get to the finish line before you go and get diagnosed. Like if you have that question, go and get treated, go in at least get those questions answered. How does a mom know that this is the right person to talk to? So I feel like I hear a lot that like their physician didn't really hear them or told them you know, one of those just said you don't have it, but didn't fill in those blanks, like you just said, like, how do they know they're talking to the right person. This was part of the problem. This is why I have like series. And this is actually part of the reason I started advocacy on social media because I feel like getting good evidence base and accurate information about ADHD is really difficult. What I would say is that seek out care where you can get care, if you feel uncomfortable with either the diagnosis or the way the diagnosis was related to you or if your questions aren't being adequately answered, seek out a secondary opinion.
Dr. Sasha Hamdani 16:27
If you had absolutely every resource available to I typically say start with a psychiatrist if you can, just because out of all of the other clinical realms, a psychiatrist has gone to medical school so they can diagnose you from a medical perspective. They've gone through residency, so they are familiar with psychological phenomenon. And they've improved that's a psychiatric residency they've become they're the best train out of all other clinical physicians in ADHD, because ADHD is part of psychiatry. And they're the best verse if those medications if medication is appropriate. Now, that's not a hard and fast rule. And I feel like generationally, there's a bit of a gap here too, because like, as a humanity has evolved. ADHD, yes, it wasn't talked about in society. It also wasn't talked about in medical circles as much as it is today. So physicians and psychiatrists from an older generation might not be as savvy or up to date on clinical dosing things and strategies, or they might be a little bit scared about the medication. So if you had complete say over who you wanted, I would go for a psychiatrist and also an A young niche psychiatrist that has been trained in the past 1015 years. Oh, that's I'm almost out of that window. Okay, but like 20 years, but like, the other thing is just research, like, go online ahead of time. And you know, the thing about psychiatry and probably all physicians is that there's going to be some outliers, there's going to be some people that are upset about things that are completely unrelated to the physician.
Dr. Sasha Hamdani 18:01
But if you're seeing a lot of stuff, like this person didn't listen to me, this person was dismissive, this person was rude. If you're seeing a repeated trend of that, you don't want to see that person. You don't want to like look for trending thing, if it's one isolated thing that could totally be an outlier. But you want to look and try to have a good idea of what you're seeing what you're looking for, because you're trying to figure out the person who can work with you collaboratively that can work with you to help you figure out what the diagnosis is. So it needs to be good relationship. I know that when you actually do a diagnosis, like that person should be looking at your full history.
Patricia Sung 18:39
So I'm just gonna put this disclaimer on this episode. Like we're not diagnosing anybody today. But here are some things to look for, like, you know, obviously, looking through your past history is a really important part. But for that mom who's looking for like, what are these red flags I should be looking for that would indicate, hey, maybe this is it. Like what kind of themes do you see in your patients who have ADHD as adults and haven't been diagnosed throughout their childhood?
Dr. Sasha Hamdani 19:06
So there are some for women in particular, a great majority of them fall into the inattentive category and whether or not that's actually accurate. Like if genetically and phenotypically, they fall into this grouping event, and they all look inattentive. I don't know if that's necessarily true, or whether they've just kind of socially adapted to like, kind of work around some of that hyperactivity and impulsivity. But for the inattentive science, you're looking for difficulty maintaining attention and task you're looking for difficulty with organizing things you're looking for difficulty with multi step problems you're looking for difficulty with like careless mistakes. I totally didn't read that. I totally didn't make that turn. difficulty remembering things that are part of daily routine. Like did I walk around the house? Did I put deodorant on? Did I brush my teeth? I don't even know.
Dr. Sasha Hamdani 19:59
Do you have difficulty losing things. Where's my keys? Where's my phone? Where's my wallet? These are all kind of along the same theme of like this inattentive presentation and for years and years and years what people kind of call this such a space cadet, you're kind of spacey, you know, that kind of stuff. And now it extends further than that. In terms of the hyperactivity step. If you were to still see residual sides of that, you might feel a little bit more fidgety, you might have more of the verbal side of things like verbal impulsivity, like blurting out an answer, interrupting people difficulty, especially when excited to talk excessively, typically, I don't see in women as much of the physical hyperactivity, maybe some restlessness, but it's not like they're like zooming around or making loud noises or like. So I think it's more verbal stuff. But you still see if there's some residual times.
Patricia Sung 20:53
And Becky asked this. And again, I get this question all the time. Like, I feel like I'm tricking my doctor into convincing them that I actually have this thing that I don't have. And maybe it's all just a ruse. What do you say to the mom who's struggling with like, maybe I just made it all up?
Dr. Sasha Hamdani 21:12
Yeah, I understand that. I think that part of that is a societal thing, right? We're expected as moms to be these people that have not only every aspect of our life put together but like, perfectly put together children's lives as well. So it seems too good to be true to have an explanation for that. What I've heard from some of my patients, and to some degree, myself when I was going through this is I felt like it was a cop out that it was so easy that I couldn't, I couldn't necessarily have that. What I would say is that I don't again, I don't know if this is just because this has become like my entire world for the past 20 years. But like, the more you immerse yourself in the human brain, and how things are wired and how you kind of process information differently as someone with ADHD, it becomes very glaringly obvious that this isn't something you're tricking yourself into a diagnosis. This isn't something it's impacting every single facet of your life, even if you don't have the verbiage to describe it. Or if you're like, if I'm describing it to another person, it sounds like I'm coming up with an excuse. It's not an excuse, it's an explanation.
Patricia Sung 22:18
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Patricia Sung 23:58
Okay, so that was actually one of the questions that somebody asked him I who asked that. I mean, she said like, how do I balance that like explaining who I am and how I work instead of it sounding like I make trying to excuse, you know, all the things that I didn't do or messed up on?
Dr. Sasha Hamdani 24:16
I think one of the things that really separates this is that, and this is why communication with whoever you're around your inner circle is really important, right? Because it changes the intention of that stuff. So for example, something as simple as I'll give you the beef in my family, my husband, it's just like, Have you never heard of a dishwasher? Like why does this? Like I'll put my dishes so close to the edge of the sink. I'll never put them in. I'll never put them in like the dishwasher. And he's just like, I don't understand, like, you're so close.
Dr. Sasha Hamdani 24:50
What is this? And so, like, for a long time, I was just like, you know, I forgot I forgot. And then after a while I was just like this isn't helping the problem the problem is recurrent. So I had to sit down and explain him like, listen, David, this does not even show up on my radar. This is muscle memory, I'm putting these dishes here. And then I don't even see it's like I do not even see it, I don't see the dishwasher. And our dishwasher is kind of tricky. It looks like cabinetry doesn't even register as a thing that I need to this is my next step. And usually, by the time I'm doing this, I have one or two kids on me doing other things. And so like this is the lowest on my priority list. So I'm not doing this to put more work on your plate like he was getting frustrated, because he's like, I feel like you're being intentionally thoughtless, like you are purposely ignoring what I'm saying, because you're trying to make a point. And I was like, I swear, I am not this isn't even on my radar.
Dr. Sasha Hamdani 25:47
So I think once I explained it to him like that, it changed the intention behind it, because he thought it was something like I'm trying to prove a point is I'm not trying to prove a point. I'm just trying to live man. So take these kids and get them to bed, man. Yeah. So I just I think I think it changes a lot of how the people around you perceive things. And I think that you don't have to come up with a spiel, you don't have to come up with like something that you say every time like it can be a little monologue. And it doesn't have to be on the very first incident either. It's as you become better at managing and recognizing your own symptoms. And also limitations, you get better at understanding like, what part of this Can I behaviorally modify? And what part Can't I do that too. And the parts that are like really recalcitrant, that aren't changing with behavioral modification that might be worth explanation. I mean, it's not an excuse. It's just saying, like, this is how my brain is wired. I'm not looking at the same things you're looking at. This doesn't bother me in the same way.
Patricia Sung 26:49
Yeah, and having that conversation to in knowing how if I get to the sink and do the dishes, at some point during the day, that's okay with me, then my husband is super clean, and he needs it to be clean after every meal. And knowing that made a difference in how I approached it. And also him understanding that like, I'm not trying to like shirk this responsibility and make it your responsibility. I think that's a lesson where our partners feel like, well, you're just trying to get out of doing it so that I get stuck doing it. And so having that conversation of like, it's not that I am trying to make you do more work. It's that I genuinely was like, juggling kids and talking about homework and all this and things got dumped, and then I move on to something else. And I forgot that the dishes never got finished. It's not that I was like, Haha, if I leave this here, and when both sides are explaining their point of view, you start to get past that. The like head butting point. Yeah, not that we have solved our dishwasher problem.
Dr. Sasha Hamdani 27:49
I just need to get a dishwasher. It's like a dishwasher. But even then, no guarantees.
Patricia Sung 27:53
Honestly, mine also looks like wood. So I feel like on that one. But I had a dishwasher before like did not like don't think I was better about it.
Dr. Sasha Hamdani 28:04
When I was living with my parents, I never did that either. So that's incorrect. Yeah.
Patricia Sung 28:10
Okay. So Lala asked about she's like, I keep discovering new symptoms. And I didn't know they were ADHD related. Is there any other like themes that you see that are obviously different in women versus men when you're talking about like that diagnosis process of like it being more than just the spacey, whatever? Like, is there anything else underlying that? Like, if a mom has this happening, it's like continuing?
Dr. Sasha Hamdani 28:39
Well, you know, I'm reluctant to give you a clear cut answer for that. Because, again, it's so complicated. That's why you need a physician or someone who's trained in this to be able to look at the symptoms, because it could easily be other things. But with ADHD, you're thinking about ADHD, at its base, it says your brain is moving super, super fast, right? So the problem is with a brain that is just wired to move a million miles an hour, you're also dealing with how to deal with the rest of your brain trying to catch up. So if you're trying to organize on the fly and put things in organized places in your brain doesn't happen. If you're trying to recall information doesn't happen. If you're trying to be meticulous, it might be too hard to do that. And then you fall on the other side of that hyperactivity of your brain moving million miles an hour and you have to deal with the burnout side of things where you're fatigued and you're tired and you're irritable. And so there's a lot of that that can look like depression, it can look like a mood disorder like bipolar, it can look like severe anxiety.
Dr. Sasha Hamdani 29:39
There are no distinct red flags that are like okay, if you have this, this is ADHD and nothing else. And that's part of you know, on social media and things like that. I bring up a lot of these things that could be like even unusual things like sensory issues, could be ADHD. It could be anxiety, it could be autism, it could be so many different other things and that's why it's important to gain awareness about what your patterns and what your symptoms are. Because the only way you're going to truly figure out diagnostically what's going on is to synthesize all that information and look at it as a whole. Because if you look at it one symptom on its own, it can be too many different things.
Patricia Sung 30:17
It's kind of like when you if you're sick, and you start Googling your symptoms, and it's like, you can be fine. Or you could be dying, like, okay, cool. Or, like when you're a mom, and you have a newborn, it's your first kid, and you started Googling, what's wrong with your kid? And every single thing is, like, totally normal or dying. Like there's no in between?
Dr. Sasha Hamdani 30:35
No, and then it's always reflux. Patricia Sung 30:40 The first time, the only time my kid had white poop? Oh, it was like, there's like this, they've got to be dying. Like, that's so weird. And again, you Google it, either. It's totally normal, or they're really sick. You're like, yeah, this way don't do anything. Yeah. Okay, now one of the biggest parts of ADHD that's not in the DSM. And for people who are like, what's the DSM is the diagnostic criteria that doctors are using to decide how things all shake out? Yeah, well, that's my highly technical term for it.
Patricia Sung 31:13
Not talked about is the emotional part, and the like, the trauma response and the rejection sensitivity. dysphoria. Like, I know that I'm asking like a huge elephant of a question, but how can we take better care of ourselves in that, like, feelings department?
Dr. Sasha Hamdani 31:30
Honestly, I think it stems from understanding yourself first, right? So I think that part of when you start to recognize the symptoms and those patterns of behavior, it can be really disconcerting, because you're like, What is this? What am I? Why am I feeling this? And why am I feeling it so robustly? I think as you learn more about yourself, and as you learn more about your diagnosis, and you know, maybe your physician isn't super well versed in, like rejection sensitivity, or the emotional criteria that comes with that. But you know, if they're like, Yeah, I think this probably is ADHD, you can go forward and kind of learn specific coping skills and things like that. And just knowing that, okay, this is stemming from my brain moving too quickly, how can I come down from this. So I think one of the most important things is one, understanding your patterns and behaviors, understanding that there is an attributable cause of those, because I think that takes away a lot of shame and guilt associated with it that this is just coming from a me place, though this is it's neurobiological.
Dr. Sasha Hamdani 32:31
And then I think the best thing you can do with that, and this is the advice that I give my patients is the advice I give my kids is the advice I give to myself is to be patient with yourself. Because I mean, you 100% of the moments that you've gone through, you've made it through on the other side, right? You've survived through all of them. And so what our goal is, we just want progressive momentum to better control those moments moving forward. And each individual episode like that is a learning opportunity and a chance for us to utilize skill sets a little bit better and start tweaking, so we're kinder and gentler to ourselves and help return back to a healthier baseline.
Patricia Sung 33:11
Yeah, I think when we get our diagnosis, or we think we have ADHD, we're like, well, now I have the answer. And tomorrow, I shall be a different person. Yes. And that incremental improvement feels really slow to us. And we don't value it at all I was I was like, as much as like, No, not at all. Like, we don't value it at all. We're like, I want this to be big. And that's not how it works.
Dr. Sasha Hamdani 33:37
It's not how it works. But I think that we're also trying to cover a lot of ground that's been covered, right? We're trying to retrain our brain and that that's not going to happen immediately. We need to rewire certain areas of our brain, we need to override all of those negative messages, we got to have years and years of being told we were lazy or stupid or thoughtless, all of that narrative needs to be kind of rewritten, or at least reframed in a way of like, okay, this came at a point of where we didn't have good understanding. But now now we do. So it's just it's a, you're right. It's a slow process. And that part sucks. But it's progressive movement forward, which is what we're aiming for. Patricia Sung 34:16 Yeah. And it's okay that we have a few steps back before we head forward again, yes. But it does get better with time. And I forget who said that. He was Ollie Worthington, where she's like, if you wait to start on it, like if it's going to take you six months to work through and you just keep pushing it off, like in six months, you're still going to have to do another six months at work. So if you start now, you're moving forward, as opposed to like, what you just you're doing nothing. You're still doing things that that you can, but that little bit does make a difference. We just don't feel it.
Dr. Sasha Hamdani 34:51
And it's hard because in the beginning, it's hard to know what direction you're going and it's hard to know if what you're doing is actually making difference. So you're kind of plodding along in the dark, because you're retraining yourself in ways. And that's part of why having therapists having a doctor having someone who's clinically trained because again, at its base, this is a neurobiological disorder. So we need to treat it as such, right, we need to understand and be science and evidence based in and how we progress forward and not just kind of, because everybody's a little bit different. And so things that may have worked for someone might not work for somebody else's DNA and genetics and the brain chemistry. So learning how your body responds, and what you want to do to kind of rebuild those pathways is really important. And that's why it's helpful to have that guide to walk you through it.
Patricia Sung 35:39
Okay, Katie asked this question. And then like seven people joined in, and we're like, yes, this what are we learning about our how our hormones affect our ADHD? And is there anything we can do? In that post ovulation to our period starting phase of where we feel awful, which is like 15% of our lives? Yeah, I guess two questions. One, are we learning anything new about that whole concept? And then two, was there anything we can do to live better? Knowing this is a thing and not in our heads? Dr. Sasha Hamdani 36:13 No. And yes.
Dr. Sasha Hamdani 36:16
No, like, it's really pathetic. Like even the studies that have come out about hormonal changes with ADHD and specifically in like this, looking at the distinction of luteal versus follicular phase of your hormone cycles, there's just not good clinical data. And so people are making assumptions. And even still, to this day, there isn't sound sound stuff, it's that you're speculating and pulling data, what uh, basically, what we know at this point from a very basic level, is that estrogen and dopamine work well together.
Dr. Sasha Hamdani
36:51 So in high estrogen times, you can expect the dopamine is high. And that's kind of what the ADHD brain craves and wants, right. So in these periods where your estrogen is lowering, your progesterone starts rising up and muddying up the picture, your brain just doesn't work as well, you're getting a little bit cloudier, you're actually more prone to have PMDD symptoms, or like you have more PMS and low mood. And then as another layer of complexity, maybe if you're taking a stimulant medication, your medications aren't working as well during that time.
Dr. Sasha Hamdani 37:22
So what you can do during those periods is now that we have that kind of data is again, because there haven't been a lot of good studies, we can't fully kind of say like, Okay, how are we going to medicate this. So this is never a problem, what I have seen is that for people that have robust mood changes during that time, sometimes it's a matter of handily of hormonally like being on birth control that has estrogen in it. So that you're kind of regulating that sometimes people have difficulty with these low low feelings right before their period, mood wise. And so maybe starting on an A suppressant at that time to kind of help so that you're not like, because if you're dealing with executive function and focus problems, and then on top of that you are hit with a slew of cognitive cloud, you feel like you are pushing through mud, you feel just low and not interested in being around it, how are you expected to parent or do anything else like it's just like, that's an added layer of so much complexity. So that might be the other thing.
Dr. Sasha Hamdani 38:21
And then finally, in terms of medication management with like, ADHD medication, some people they do increase their medication slightly during that time, it just hasn't been well studied for that indication. So it may technically it would be off label during that time. Now, we could say that historically, that might be effective. But the problem is that once you start monkeying around with medications, especially stimulant medications that you would have to increase, you're also looking at a slew of potential side effects that you could be dealing with. So you're weighing a risk versus benefit.
Patricia Sung 38:50
And like, I have 400 more questions for you. But I do need to like wrap up soon. So I'm gonna do the lightning round questions where you just have to fill in the blank. You don't have to explain anything. And before we do that, though, I know that there's going to be a whole bunch of moms listening that are like, how do I get on Dr. Sasha schedule? So would you let us know? Like, is that an option for moms to work with you? And there's their restrictions on like, location and what have you, so that you don't have 100 people calling you tomorrow?
Dr. Sasha Hamdani 39:25
Yeah, for a lot. You know, when I started this social media thing, it just kind of exploded, and I had to shut my practice for a while because like I was booked out for 30 minutes. It was just absurd. But since then, I think I've fallen into a good swing of things. And it's started honestly, the holidays were nuts. But since then, I literally this week, I opened up to new patients. Again, I'm taking patients in Kansas in Missouri that I can see I'm doing 100%, telehealth so yeah, telehealth was a weird right now as things are starting to roll back prior that I could see people out of state a little bit better but I kept now just because they're starting to pull back things. So yeah, they can if they want to.
Patricia Sung 40:05
So if you're in Kansas or Missouri, yes, call Dr. Sasha or somewhere else, you're on your own go back and listen to earlier when we explained what to do, okay. All right lightning round questions. So just fill in the blank. You don't have to explain just got it.
Patricia Sung 40:23
Okay. Number one, the best thing that I read or listened to recently is
Dr. Sasha Hamdani 40:28
Pinkalicious.
Patricia Sung 40:33
Number two, my most boring about me fascists.
Dr. Sasha Hamdani 40:37
I really enjoy spelling.
Patricia Sung 40:40
Number three, when I'm having a rough day my go to quote, Song poem, book activity, whatever is.
Dr. Sasha Hamdani 40:46
Early 2000s pop music.
Patricia Sung 40:49
Don't tell anyone I
Dr. Sasha Hamdani 40:51
double dip with chips and salsa. I don't even care who was eating it with me. I have a germ factory.
Patricia Sung 41:00
Number five. If I had a magic fairy one for one spell, I would
Dr. Sasha Hamdani 41:04
have the ability to manipulate time.
Patricia Sung 41:06
Number six. My best piece of advice for mamas with ADHD is
Dr. Sasha Hamdani 41:11
be patient. Be patient.
Patricia Sung 41:15
And then how can the moms find you now that they've fallen in love with you?
Dr. Sasha Hamdani 41:20
Oh, you can find me on social media. I'm the psych doctor and D and dr is D o c t o r? Or you can type in my name Sasha Hamdani and I'll come up. They could get my website. But I did my website myself. And it was kind of terrible. I mean, there's good information, I guess. But it's not cute.
Dr. Sasha Hamdani 41:41
Yeah, but other than that, and I don't know if this is of interest, and I just found out it's gonna get pushed back. But hopefully if everything goes a plan, my first book on self care for people with ADHD is coming out in January.
Patricia Sung 41:54
Congratulation.
Dr. Sasha Hamdani 41:56
Thank you. Thanks. It'll be exciting if it ever actually does come out. I don't know pandemic made everything weird. Patricia Sung 42:02 It made everything word. Yeah.
Patricia Sung 42:05
Well, thank you so much. I so appreciate you. sharing with us and, and really being encouraging for moms who are struggling with word start stealing.
Patricia Sung 42:17
Thank you.
Dr. Sasha Hamdani 42:18
You are so welcome.
Patricia Sung 42:22
Hey there, Mama. I've got something fun for you. Who doesn't love a quiz? I want to know which mama animal are you because you're not your average Mama Bear. You have a magical ADHD brain that puts a sprinkle of brilliance on everything you do. Sure, you may have forgotten that laundry in the washer for the third time. But what are your strengths? What makes your ADHD parenting style unique to you? How do you use that sparkle to bless your family? So which mama animal are you? Find out by taking the quiz? What's your ADHD mama parenting style because you're not your average Mama Bear? Head on over to Patricia sung.com forward slash quiz and find out and then when you do I want you to post your results on social media so we can see that your hashtag, not your average Mama Bear along with the hashtag. I'm a mama and then fill in the animal that you get. Again, that's patriciasung.com/quiz. And I can't wait to see what you get. So tag me and motherhood in ADHD. Unknown Speaker
Patricia Sung 43:26
For more resources, classes and community head over to my website motherhoodinadhd.com