Exit the Emotional Rollercoaster: How to Help Your ADHD Child Build Their Emotional Regulation Skills with Dr. Carrie Jackson #175
Having someone on your side who understands makes everything easier. Especially when you’re learning how to navigate parenting your neurodivergent child.
As a child psychologist, Dr. Carrie Jackson coaches parents on how to work in harmony with their ADHD child. As someone who also has ADHD herself, she helps parents with novel strategies that fit with their own, as well as their child's neurodiverse brains.
On today’s episode we talk about avoiding major meltdowns by learning your child’s patterns, diffusing tense situations, navigating when to step into your child’s conflict and when to let them resolve it on their own.
You can use many of these emotional regulation strategies for your own neurodivergence, too, mama! Let’s lean into working with our ADHD brains instead of against them
Find more about Dr. Carrie and download her free resources at www.iparentadhd.com or download her app https://www.smartcookie.app/adhd-program/.
Links mentioned in this episode
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Dr. Carrie Jackson 00:00
No parent, whether they're neurodiverse or not, is going to be 100% consistent.
Patricia Sung 00:05
Are you overwhelmed by motherhood and barely keeping your head above water? Are you confused and frustrated by how all the other moms make it look so easy. You can figure out how to manage the chaos in your mind, your home, or your family. I get your mama, parenting with ADHD is hard. Here is your permission slip to let go of the Pinterest worthy visions of organization and structure fit for everyone else. Let's do life like our brains do life creatively, lovingly, and with all our might. When we embrace who we are and how our brains work, we can figure out how to live our lives successfully, and in turn, lead our families. Well, at the end of the day, we just want to be good moms. but spoiler alert, you are already a great mom. ADHD does not mean you're doomed to be a hot mess. Mama, you can rewrite your story from shame spiral to success story. And I'll be right here beside you to cheer you on. Welcome to motherhood in ADHD. Hey there successful mama. It's your friend Patricia Sung. How recently has it been where your kid was getting irritated and you got irritated. And then your kid got more irritated and you got more irritated. And then everybody was irritated and all went off the rails. This is part of our emotional regulation. And today we're talking about it with Dr. Carrie Jackson. Now Dr. Carrie is a child psychologist and a parent coach in Southern California who specializes in working with parents of kids who have ADHD. As someone who has ADHD herself she helps parents with novel strategies that fit with their and their kids neurodiverse brains. Now, if you're in Southern California, or I guess anywhere in California, magic curry also does diagnosis for ADHD. So she's a great person to have in your Rolodex. And we dive into her diagnosis story and how she became a child psychologist who actually works with parents and not child. I love finding other people who have a similar take that I do. And like working with mom or dad like that matters. That is something that is important and valuable and incredibly useful in how we take care of our kids ADHD as well. We discuss some common themes and issues that she sees in helping ADHD families navigate life with ADHD, as well as you're going to walk away with some specific strategies of what you can do today to help with emotional regulation in your family. So let's welcome Dr. Carrie Jackson to the show. How are you doing this morning?
Dr. Carrie Jackson 02:43
I am great. Thank you so much for having me. I know it's early in the morning for both of us. So I'm drinking my coffee. Hopefully, I will be fully awake and ready to go. So thank you so much for having me on your podcast.
Patricia Sung 02:55
I'm excited. I was like, I'm gonna jump right into the tough stuff here of I'd love to know, like, how did you get through your doctorate with ADHD?
Dr. Carrie Jackson 03:04
Oh, my goodness, I actually do love this question. It's not one that I did ask that many times. But in college, that was actually when I first started having trouble with keeping up with all those scores, because like, honestly, like throughout high school, it was not as much of an issue because I was just kind of like, I don't need to study for tests, and I would just make it through. So like in graduate school, that was where it was really tough for me. You know, it's interesting, because like, in graduate school, when I was in I have my PhD in psychology, it's like way less class focus. So it's like you have your classes, which are important. You have to study for tests, and all those things. But the real main work you do, it's like seeing clients doing research. So I feel like that was actually a huge asset to me, because it's like, I didn't have to spend all of my time studying. And to be honest, it's like, I didn't not put as much effort into my classes, because I was more focused on like the real world stuff. So I really focus on that. But I did get actually like a lot of negative feedback on how I don't pay attention in classes. So that was definitely tough for me to hear. But, you know, I just focus on all the applied stuff. And that's why I love what I do now, because it's so apparent, I don't have to do any classes in those pieces. But it was really tough.
Patricia Sung 04:20
I get this feedback quite often. And I'm always like, Ooh, it's a lot to like, unravel. But a lot of people will be like, you have these guests on your show that are like so successful and so pulled together and they know all the answers. I'm like, I don't relate with that. Like I'm a mess, and I can't get anything done and I can't achieve goals and like, I can't identify with these successful people on your podcast. Like can you basically like, can you have somebody who's like a big hot mess on your podcast so I can identify with them? And I'm like, I'm sorry, I gave the impression that I had it all together. But
Dr. Carrie Jackson 04:55
yeah, that is so funny. I get that to where it's like people they're like elevate you always Have it together? And I'm like, do you see what is going on behind the scenes because it's like, not that way at all. And I'm sure you did this to where people are like, you're doing so much like you're doing so many things. And it's like, yeah, like, that's true, because that's like, what I have to do to like, keep myself like excited about doing things, but like, it is not together at all. And I also have a lot of help and support from people who helped me keep it together. But it is not that way at all. And so for anyone who does feel that way, like just know that we are both hot messes, like, behind the scenes, and sometimes, like in front of the scenes, too.
Patricia Sung 05:33
Yeah, I think we always put like our best foot forward, obviously. But like, when something's your passion, like for you helping families with their ADHD, like, it's a lot easier to be excited and get things done, because you love it like that hyper focus kicks in and you like, really shine. And I'm like, well, but please don't look at my kitchen counter right now. I am not passionate about that. And it shows.
Dr. Carrie Jackson 05:58
I really appreciate that. Because also, it's like, there's so much that people don't see. And so it's like, of course, we're both like on Instagram and like, you know, all this social media, and you're only seeing like a snippet of our lives. But it's like, I absolutely struggle with a lot of the things that I think like other people do, too, where it's like, I constantly feel like I am just like, not keeping up with things like I'm not doing all the things I should be doing. It's hard. Yeah. So it's like, you know, like, you're only seeing like a snippet of what we're doing. And like, the hot mess is there too.
Patricia Sung 06:29
But when you think about your ADHD, where do you feel like you really shine and where are the parts that you really struggle with.
Dr. Carrie Jackson 06:36
So I think that like the parts where it's like I do the best. It's like, I do get really into things like and I can like really thrive on having like multiple things that I am doing at once because it's like, I need some type of structure. But like I do not like routine at all. And so for me, it's like I am, you know, have my own businesses. And I feel like that is like something that is actually made for me because I decide what my days look like I decide what I do, versus having somebody else tell me that that is like, this is what you're doing today. So it's like, I get to choose all the things that I'm interested in, set my own schedule. So I think that's one of the places where it's like, I really feel like I do well in I'm sure for you to you know, it's like you can like do things like according at least somewhat to like what you want to do. But as far as like struggles, and I know we're going to talk about this today, but like I think like emotions are actually like a big place where it's like more of a challenge for me that and then like always feeling like I am missing something. So it's like, for example, I just went on a trip this weekend. And before leaving, it was only like two night trip, I feel like I'm leaving something, I feel like I'm leaving something so stressed out about not keeping up with it. Of course, when I got to the hotel, like I had left, like four things at home. So it's like, you know, there are always things that I feel like I'm missing. And so like that part, I would say is like more stressful and like, I can't always keep up with all the things and I also like struggle with emotion regulation, too.
Patricia Sung 08:00
Yeah, we're definitely gonna get into that today. Um, I'm already like telling myself like, don't jump in there just yet. Patricia ask a few more questions first, but I'm really excited to get into that. Okay, before I do, when were you actually diagnosed with ADHD? And how did you deal with that process?
Dr. Carrie Jackson 08:14
Not until I was actually an adult, like, which I think is surprising for a lot of people because it's like, well, I don't know, maybe it's not surprising, because like being a girl, you know, like, there's that piece too. But yeah, it wasn't actually until I was an adult where I went through an evaluation and then met with a psychiatrist where he was like, Yeah, this is going on, because like I had struggled like, at times, like throughout my life with just like attention focus. And like, even as a child is like, all the signs were there. But I think I was very lucky to have like a very patient understanding family, like my mom was a preschool teacher. So it's like, she has the patience of the entire world. But like, even like my mom, she always says like, from a young age, it's like, I would struggle with something like emotionally and be kind of like all over the place. But it's like I was doing so well in school that it was kind of like there's nothing really going on is what they thought they're like maybe it's just like her personality or maybe this is just how she is so you know, throughout like middle and high school I kind of like skated by just like did really well in school. But then like underneath all I was like still like a lot of struggles with like focusing and attention and it's like when I got into college is when I was like okay, this is like really impacting me. But actually like even as an adult I thought kind of like, isn't something that's going on like you know, like, it's hard I think to like fully understand without going through like a mental health professional and I am a mental health professional myself too, but it's like, I can't tell what's going on with me but I don't know I feel like there is so much stigma around it that it kept me from pursuing it for a while because I was like I really do have a lot of things together. So it's like is it really worth it for me they go but I am so glad that I did end up going to to it because it's like now I understand myself better. And now I can like help people, you know, who are similar to me too.
Patricia Sung 10:03
I mean, I know you have kind of this like intersection of parents and kids together that you're working with. But do you see that pattern of folks are like, well, you know, you do. Alright, so far. So like, is it really worth trying to figure this out?
Dr. Carrie Jackson 10:17
Yeah, that happens so often, like, I mean, like, especially even for, like the parents that I see, a lot of the times I'm seeing parents for their kids. But the parents will say, the more that I learned from you, or the more that I learned about my child, I'm kind of thinking, This sounds like me, or that sounds like my husband or the sounds like my partner. And so they'll ask me they're like, but like, is it really worth it at this point, because I don't want to have medication, right. And that's completely valid, if that's not something you do want to pursue, but it's also like, it can open up with so many different positives, I think, as far as like understanding yourself, and also just like looking at other types of supports for managing your ADHD, like, what do you get supports from like, people like you, for example, where it's like, these are some tips for if you are a mother with ADHD, this is how you can manage it. So I do think it can, like bring a huge sense of like relief and understanding for people. Because with ADHD, there's often like so much shame behind like different things that you've done throughout your life where it's like people with ADHD, they tend to internalize them and think that they are like, the problem for these behaviors were really, it's related to their ADHD, not their personality, not who they are as a person. And so for you to be able to internalize that I think is huge.
Patricia Sung 11:36
Yeah, that's exactly what I tell people as well is like, there's like this piece of validation that we don't realize is so helpful when you have that, because when you don't, it's always like, Well, maybe it's just my personality. Maybe I just didn't try harder, maybe. And it's so much easier to like, blame it on yourself and take on that shame when you don't have like, this official piece of paper telling you, which you don't need. But for some reason, it seems it seems like so many of us do you need that, like, yes, it's true. And then like always, the piece of like, ADHD rarely travels alone. So you probably have some other stuff that you should get checked. And like getting all the pieces of the puzzle together, you know, assuming that you do have someone who is experienced and can, you know, pull those pieces out, but I'm always like, Oh, what do you think? What do you think? When especially for people who work with so many people who have ADHD, like these patterns emerge? And you're like, Okay, so let me ask you, how did you end up where you are considering that you went to school for being a child psychologist? But wait, wait psychologist or psychiatrist, psychologist?
Dr. Carrie Jackson 12:47
Yep. So psychologists we don't want it's actually very confusing because there are some states where you can prescribe medications and psychologists, but overall, like most psychologists do not prescribe medication. They're just a few that you can, and psychiatrist is a medical doctor went to medical school for medication. So yeah.
Patricia Sung 13:04
Okay, thank you. I'm like, wait, I'm like, I just said that. I was like, did I just make that up? Okay, so now I'm going to school for child psychology. But now you mostly work with parents, like how did you end up with the flu? Like, I don't find many people who actually focus on the parents instead of the kids. So I'm like, Oh, how'd you get there? What happened?
Dr. Carrie Jackson 13:24
My experience in graduate school actually, like led me there. So in graduate school, which I went to West Virginia University in small town, Morgantown, West Virginia, it is like a program where I started working with a professor who she focused really on parenting. So there's actually like, so much research showing how like when you support parents, that can lead to so many positive mental health changes for kids, aside from just ADHD, so like anxiety, depression, opposition ality like, even just like other like concerns, or just like kids who are like trying to develop like their social and emotional thinking, it's really helpful to focus on the parents. And so with her, we were doing a lot of research really focused on like, how does focusing on parenting actually prevent problems like for people later down the road, and so like, when you focus on supporting parents with parenting interventions, that's how you can really prevent any of these challenges. Not any of them, but like many of them down the road. So I started doing like a lot of work as far as like learning different parenting programs, because there are interventions out there specifically for the parents to help the kids which trained in those and it's amazing because you can actually see a lot of change really fast when you work with parents. And so it led me to that which is like I love doing this. I want to continue working with parents and so now here I am doing like most of that as my work I do see some kids but like I really do love like working with the parents as well too, because they're kind of like their missing piece. I think then a lot of support networks where kids are getting it but the parents aren't getting it.
Patricia Sung 14:57
Like for me I was a middle school teacher before I started doing this. And I feel like that it is the missing piece there because we can give all these tools to families. But ultimately, the parents are responsible for actually executing everything. And when you have a kid with ADHD, there's a fairly good chance one of the parents does as well. So now you're expecting somebody who is also kind of a hot mess to now do like all their basic parenting stuff. But now let's add on another layer of your kid needs something extra. And it's a lot for like regular parenting is already like, Oh, let me throw on like, now your kid needs more. And it's just a lot for parents to carry. And when we don't focus on them, and we don't give them the tools and strategies and support. It's so much harder for all of those things to like, stay in place. When you look like at your parent population. How would you be able to guess like, how many of the parents that you work with would be neurodiverse? And how many would not?
Dr. Carrie Jackson 16:02
It's the majority. Absolutely, that is neurodiverse, I would say at this point, it's like rare that I have a parent where they're not. And if they aren't, many of them are actually like undergoing the process to understand if they are neurodiverse. So it is very, very uncommon, I feel like to have a parent where they are neurotypical and then their child is neurodiverse. That being said, it does happen still, you know, absolutely. There are ways that that can happen. But largely like ADHD is a genetic disorder. And so oftentimes you do see it run in families. And that can bring, of course, so many different I think strengths and also challenges. It's like you might be able to understand your child. And at the same time, it's like now you've got double, to manage double to overcome, which is really tough.
Patricia Sung 16:47
How do you differentiate your strategies that you're teaching parents to fit their neurodiversity?
Dr. Carrie Jackson 16:55
I love that question. Because like, I know a lot of parents who are no diverse, like, when they come to me, they're worried they're like, Listen, I've tried so many things, I've tried all the routines, all the reward charts, they just don't work for me.
Patricia Sung 17:07
I mean, sorry, I'm just gonna repeat, I hate sticker charts and reward charts. So much. Thank you for saying,
Dr. Carrie Jackson 17:12
Yeah, and I mean, there may be ways to incorporate some of these strategies, but it's like I know who I work with, it's gonna be something they're going to stick to. So like, let's find another way to do it. With that being said, it's like I look for like, not 100% consistency, knowing from the get go, that is not going to be possible. No parent, whether they're neurodiverse or not, is going to be 100%. Consistent, right. Also, a lot of the times with parents who have ADHD, one of the things they'll do is like, I feel like they will almost be like hyper focus on like parenting at times where it's like, they will really focus on like, I'm going to be the best ADHD parent, let's do all the routines, or Ward charts, all of this. And I'm like, Okay, let's actually dial it back. Because that is a lot to do. Realistically, I don't know if you will be able to keep up with that. So I really focus on like, skills in the moment where it's like, we're taking away some of the things that you're doing and making it more sustainable. And also like giving parents the space to like, accept the fact that you can still be a great parent, even if you're not 100% consistent. Even if you're not a Pinterest mom doing all of those activities like that are amazing. But you don't have to do that to be a good parent. So it's really about dialing it back helping you feel that you are so like a great parent, it just takes managing the strategies and like tweaking them a little bit for your brain and your family.
Patricia Sung 18:28
Where do you see the most frequent obstacles popping up? Or like, what are the most common themes that you see with your clients?
Dr. Carrie Jackson 18:36
Oh, man. Okay, so that is tough, I would say. So like, there are a lot of challenges as far as like, parents implementing things at home in a way where it's like, they can be consistent with them. So like, I think that is like, just throughout just like your strategy, or like, it's a challenge that parents have, where they're, like, maybe we're going to try, like a new way of communicating with their kids. And so it's like, they'll be like, I forgot to do that this week, you know, like, because they have ADHD, but so what I do with parents is I really focus on like, let's identify a time that you can actually practice this skill, maybe it's gonna be the five minutes before bedtime, maybe it's gonna be during dinner time. So that is like one of the pieces where we really like start with, like, dialing it back down. I mean, I see a lot of parents, though, who are also struggling with, like emotion regulation from both their kids and themselves, because it's like, their kids will become emotionally dysregulated. And then like, as a parent, they're oftentimes like, triggered basically by their child's own emotional dysregulation for various reasons. So it may just be that like, their child is having a tantrum and that's like really loud and difficult for them. Or it may be the reason that their child is having a tantrum, but like might trigger their own parents emotion dysregulation and so that kind of becomes a tough thing to manage when it's like you have a parent with ADHD who is emotionally dysregulated and a child with ADHD who's emotionally dysregulated. So it's like a cycle that is hard to break.
Patricia Sung 20:03
When we enter that like spiral or like the light, like, it's almost like a laddering of like, kids dysregulated parent gets dysregulated. And I would say, you can't see me on the podcast as like, an in my hands. They're like, it's like once that goes up, and then the other side goes up. And once that goes up, it's like, it's almost like a one upping of regulation. And then it all, you know, falls off the wagon. Usually, when that's happening, like most of my clients don't realize that they're even in that like, stress mode, and like that they've hit that cycle, and it's art, like the spin cycles on and we're going until it's too late. So how do we like, back up the truck? And how do we notice that we have that problem in the first place? And my second question is going to be okay, then what do we do about it? But let me start with like, how do we even notice that like, everything is falling off the rails?
Dr. Carrie Jackson 20:54
Oh, my gosh, well, it can be like a very quick escalation, which I think is the reason why a lot of the times people don't realize that it's going off the rails. So like, one of the things that like I will work with parents on is like really identifying the first signs of both their child's emotion dysregulation, and theirs because like big emotions, they're really like a wave a lot of the times where it's like they go up, and if you could see me, I'm like, maybe my hand go up into a peak, and then it's a peak like a wave, and then they go back down. So I will have parents identify like the very first signs that their child is getting emotionally dysregulated. And that can often help because a lot of the times parents are not as aware of their own first signs of emotional dysregulation, but they can tell their child's so if they're seeing that their child is like, starting to, like get short with them. Some parents have told me that like the first signs is like a lot of like moving their bodies around and like kind of a dysregulated way where it's not a tantrum, but it's like your child just like starts to like, move their body a lot and have a lot of energy they feel keyed up, those signs are so important to pay attention to and like when you can like notice those outside of those situations, then you can actually sometimes do something about them. And then you're never going to always be able to de escalate the situation. But it's a helpful place to start, at least with de escalating it.
Patricia Sung 22:11
Okay, when you think about the patterns do most people have like a pretty predictable pattern, where it's pretty easy to pick that out? Like, most people, they usually don't have like a really good sense of themselves. And we don't like listen to ourselves very well, we don't hear our body. So like, a lot of times, it's hard for us to pick those out. Is it something that's usually easy to find? Or is it like, oh, well, sometimes I do this, but sometimes I do that. And sometimes I do this, like, how predictable is it for us to find those first signals.
Dr. Carrie Jackson 22:42
So I would say that, like they're gonna be like many signals, but many of them will likely be the same. And so it's not necessarily that every single time you do the same thing, but you might start to notice like patterns within that pattern. And especially working with someone like that is something that I help people do is really identify the patterns, because I oftentimes have parents or kids say like, it's so random, when I get upset, and I really can't tell the signs. And I agree, it can seem random until you really break it down. So like, for example, like I might have a family where they say, My child forgot to turn in their assignments, and it just like, set me off, or we were going to this birthday party and it set me off. So I started to look at like the broad patterns where it's like, okay, it seems like a lot of these triggers, they're really in like social situations, that is the broader pattern. Or it might be like when a limit is set. And then also like, what that looks like for you is it's like, Okay, the first thing that you start to notice is your physiological, like your body symptoms, okay, for some people what they notice versus like, their thoughts and what's going on there. So it's really about breaking it down into like, the broader classes of patterns. But I think that's really hard to do by yourself. And so working with someone who can be a great way to do that.
Patricia Sung 23:59
I'm like, Oh, we do that too. Like you said, because we don't have as much self awareness and like, I'm gonna try not to get on my soapbox about why that is. And all the patterning we received as kids to ignore ourselves, but I'm gonna, I'm gonna rein it in Patricia is that because we don't have as high of an awareness of ourselves a lot of times we don't even realize that like, we have that pit in our stomach, or like our face is starting to turn red or we're starting to feel hot. Like, a lot of us don't have that like body awareness. So to like, zoom out and look at those bigger patterns of like, social situations. When I tell my kid No, you know, like for some feels like when I forgot something, anytime I forgotten something and I start getting mad at myself. Like, when you start to zoom out and look at like, the big pattern than it feels like then it's easier for us to like zoom in and start to see the smaller patterns. So
Dr. Carrie Jackson 24:51
Yeah, like zooming out and and zooming in. I think a lot of clients they get surprised by how like, specific I get about the situations that happen where Say, Okay, let's talk about that time this past weekend where you were upset. So they tell me exactly what happened and like we go slow through these instances, but it's so important because that is where that awareness can be built to. Yeah, cuz
Patricia Sung 25:12
in the moment like when you're mad, you're mad, and bull in the china shop just Blaze on through and we don't notice all the little things that go on because we've already hit volcano mode. We're just a lava everywhere, people. Mama, are you looking for some extra support? Could you use a few more like minded mamas in your circle? Here is your official invitation to join our Facebook group, the motherhood in ADHD community. Here, you can ask questions, share advice, but most importantly, know that you're not alone. Click on the link in the show notes or search on Facebook for motherhood in ADHD community. So come join our little corner of the internet with other mamas who know how your brain works and won't look at you crazy when you share what's floating around inside there. Instead, they'll say I get it. I've been there. And I know how that is. So come on. What are you waiting for? See in there. Again, that's the motherhood in ADHD community on Facebook. Okay, so now that we know step one is looking at those signals, and that it is helpful to have someone walk through with us because when we're that stressed out, we can a lot of times see that and that's like, that's your body protecting you. It's okay, like it's not a bad thing. But having someone there to help you is very useful once we can identify what some of these patterns are. So we've got like the recognition of like, oh, things are starting to fall off the rails, we can see it happening. What do we do in that moment when like, Oh, now I realize it's all going off the rails? Like what can we actually do to like stop the epic meltdown on all parties because I want moms to be able to walk away from this episode having like a tangible thing of like, I can do this. I can look for patterns and to when I realize everything's going to hell in a handbasket. Right now, what's one thing you can do to hopefully watch again, it's not gonna work every time we don't we're not saying this standard for ourselves. But what's something we could do some of the times to keep it from turning into epic meltdown from everybody?
Dr. Carrie Jackson 27:16
Yes. So of course, I guess that like it's Sondra and I happen every time. But like, after you've identified the patterns, like there are going to be different ways to manage what's going on. And I'm all for prevention. But let's say you are like off the rails and you're out your day, how do I rein it back in, if you are like in an argument with your child, and you notice, okay, this is escalating, honestly, one of the biggest ways to de escalate it is to start by like lowering your voice into almost a whisper, like when you are speaking to your child, because it's like, if you are raising your voice, your child is going to try and raise their voice to where you get into that one up situation where like you were talking about, like if you just lower your own voice first that will regulate your own emotions as well too, because you're not continuing to yell your child, they will likely also have to like calm themselves down so they can actually hear what you're saying. So that's like a pretty quick strategy that you can use. The only thing that I will say is it's hard to do that when you're dysregulated at first, but like when you do it, and you see some success with it, it can be really beneficial to try that out.
Patricia Sung 28:25
And then how do we help our kids? Like, even if we somehow have mastered this skill ourselves? How do we help our kids when they are in that dysregulated state? Like what's something we can do in that moment to help them because like, it feels like, you know, people are like, just calm down, calm down. It's like no one ever calm down by saying like someone telling them to calm down.
Dr. Carrie Jackson 28:45
It's the opposite, right?
Patricia Sung 28:46
Yes, like, what can we actually do for our kids, like when we see that they're starting to lose it and we ourselves have not yet lost it? What can we do to help them in that moment.
Dr. Carrie Jackson 28:55
So I will say that like actually like, the more you try and do in that situation, like the more escalate, it can become actually and so as a parent, like one of the most helpful things you can do is actually give your child space to regulate their emotions themselves. Because so many parents what their instinct is, is to jump in problem solve, like when their child is starting to show those signs of dysregulation, or if they are having that dysregulation. And the the issue with that is, it's like kids, they do learn to regulate their emotions through parents, which is great, but we also want them to learn to do it themselves. And so like as a parent, if you're always like, trying to calm them down in the moment, they're learning those self regulation skills. So if they're like having a meltdown in the moment, or if they're even, like on the way to there, you can ask them like questions, you know, be like, hey, it sounds like you know, like you're frustrated because you lost your video game. What do you think we can do to that helps them like solve problems themselves and start to regulate their own emotions themselves too, which is really important for helping kids really become like emotionally regulated adults to just as we're talking to. I'm realizing like as, as you're asking me questions, oh my gosh, it's so funny doing like podcasts like, as someone with ADHD with another person with ADHD because like, I feel like I will start like answering your question. And then at the end, I'm just like, what did she even ask me? Like, how did I get here? I hope I answered that.
Patricia Sung 30:22
I just follow the rabbit trail. No, you did. It's like, I want the mom listening to have a very tangible thing to do in those moments. And in this case, the tangible thing is that when you have not lost your cool, but your kid is struggling, our job is not to like regulate for them. Like I think a lot of times we hear like sharing your regulation. And we think that means like forcibly putting our regulation on them. And that's not what it is. It's it's sharing, not shoving. So how do we teach them those skills without like smothering them or walking away, like, it just feels like in the moment, as a mom, like, I'm torn between, like, I want to help you, but I don't want to do it for you. And I want to teach you how to do it. But I want you to be able to do it on your own. But also, I don't want to walk away from you. Because then I heard that's also bad if I just leave you to figure it out yourself. And I don't help and it's like, you just have all these different like, like, you're weighing all the pros and cons of all different strategies at the same time. And you don't know what to pick in them.
Dr. Carrie Jackson 31:24
Yeah, very true. So like, I mean, I actually don't know if you have multiple kids or like if you have to So okay, so like, I'm guessing like, there are times that your kids fight unless they are 100%. Perfect. So like, with siblings, for example, like let's say that, like you hear you're in your living room, you hear a fight going on, it's helpful for kids to learn how to solve some conflict themselves. And so it's like, I encourage parents to just kind of like, let it sit for a while, see if they come to like some type of like conflict resolution, but then like to use the strategy of teaching kids self regulation, what you might want to do is like, ask them some of those questions I was talking about to help them problem solve. So like, let's say they're both fighting over a toy that they both want to play with, what you could do is like, you know, like you've given them like a few minutes to sort it out, they're not starting out. So you could say, it looks like you guys are having a problem where you're fighting over the toy, what are some solutions we could come up with, have them talk through those solutions together, and then offer a lot of praise when they are practicing those problems solving skills. So like, rather than like jumping in, right, when can start to fight, it's helpful to just sit with it, which again, is uncomfortable as a parent, I am not a parent, actually. But I have four nephews. And so it's like for me to see some of the fights that they go through hard times. I'm like, it is hard to not jump in there, you know, and to just automatically, like, start to problem solve for them. But it's so important to like, sit with it and let them do that.
Patricia Sung 32:52
Yeah, I think there's a lot of fear there too, as like when your kid has ADHD. And when you've seen them go down a path that's not good. Like where they've gotten in a fistfight, or they've said things that really hurt the other person. Like, it feels like there's like an extra ante in there that you feel like you need to step in before they end up in like a really awful situation. And so there's like, this extra level of stress there of Is it safe for me to let them figure this out on their own? Or are we gonna end up in this terrible situation that we've had in the past? Do you have any advice for that? Yeah,
Dr. Carrie Jackson 33:28
I mean, especially with like, I would say aggression that happens often, you know, sometimes with kids with ADHD, just because that like their impulsivity can like happen so quickly. But like, I mean, I think it's still good to like, try and not jump in, because there are times where they will be able to regulate themselves, but also, like, one of the best prevention strategies is praise, actually. And so it's like, when you see like, the siblings fighting or starting to, like, get a little bit sad, but they're remaining calm, you can give that a lot of positive attention and say, like, Oh, I love how even though you're frustrated, you're still trying to solve this problem together. That type of positive attention can help prevent some negatives from escalating and because like, as a parent, you're likely giving that situation attention whether you want to or not, whether it's you're like jumping in immediately. And you're saying like, no, stop doing that, like stop I know really toy or if you focus on the positives in that moment. So like switching your attention to the positives, which again, can be difficult to do can be helpful for preventing it from escalating even further.
Patricia Sung 34:34
Yeah. And I feel like I need to like throw in this like, disclaimer of like, you know, your kid best and I'm sure everyone can think of times where like, they've done something and it worked and also times where they did something and then it just made their kid more mad. So you as the parent have the most knowledge about your kid. And there is like this balance of knowing like yes For some kids, if you ask them a question, when they're really irritated, they're just gonna get more mad, but not necessarily always, we've probably shared like 20 Different ideas over the course of the podcast, all 20 are not going to work for your kid. So like, you have the best decision making capability to be like, You know what these four sound like good ideas for my kid, this one, that's not gonna work, my kids gonna do, like, hate that whatever, like, you need to use your like mom filter on what's gonna work, but also like, and maybe I'm just projecting my issue right now of like, also being able to trust my kid that they're not always going to have that problem. And that, when I don't give them the chance to solve their own issues, I'm literally taking away the ability for them to practice those skills. And then they can't get better at it, because I took away the way that they could have practice that. So also, like, I've used my own regulation to say like, it's okay for me to like, see where this goes, it may go bad, to hopefully have a back up plan. But allowing them the space to work that out on their own is also really valuable, because they can't get better if every time I jump in and take that opportunity of practice away from them.
Dr. Carrie Jackson 36:11
I know it is like a back and forth. And I do love what you brought up about how it's like we did share a lot of like tips, and they're not going to work for everyone. But I think this also goes back to what we were talking about earlier about like the 100% consistency, where it's like, you also like, Yes, don't expect yourself to be 100% consistent with skills. And also with that don't expect your child to be 100% consistent with how they respond, you know, so yeah, there are times or something you do and may work really well. Other times, it may not do anything, or it may even backfire. That doesn't mean throw the whole skill out or stop doing it completely. Just take a look at it as like it's one tool in your bag. And like maybe what you'll start to see is like, Oh, this works really well in this situation. But it doesn't work so well in this other situation is really about finding those strategies that work for your family in specific situations. And so individualized because there's so many different things that come up for different families like so I think it's important to acknowledge that with your consistency also, like give your child the grace of that consistency too. And I
Patricia Sung 37:15
think when you work with someone like you and you have a chance to like work through all those one off situations like those the times where you can come up with the plans for different things, because like you're right people, like something that works for your kid at home, and then you have an audience and you're out in public, all of a sudden, it may not work in that situation. But to know you have someone like you on your side to be like, Hey, let's look at those patterns. Let's find the places where like, Okay, this situation worked well here, what's the pattern? Okay? Now we found out that like, okay, but when this happened, like when this relatives around, we're going to have to do something different. And that's why having someone in your corner is so helpful because that person can help you look at things objectively find those patterns and think about like, Okay, well, you probably have like 753 strategies that you can pull from. And when you're in this situation, you're like, I remember zero of my strategy options. Like, that's how when having an expert in your corner is like, okay, I can see that like these things work for your kid here. These things worked for your kid in this situation, these things didn't go so well. And you know, like, Okay, well, you have my rolodex of skills. And I can be like, Okay, well, if this worked and this work, but this didn't like, probably this one will also help. I definitely, definitely not do that. Like, that's why having an expert, they're so helpful, because when you're in the weeds, it's really hard to figure out what is going to be best for your family, because it's stressful, like you want your kid to do. Well, yeah, you do.
Dr. Carrie Jackson 38:37
And I mean, I think every single parent that we work with is like very well intentioned, but it's like, they're just at a loss for what to do. Or you feel like you're doing the kitchen sink method, where it's like, you throw everything in and really cannot figure out what works. So it's like having someone who can take a step back sleeping more objectively than you can in the moment is so helpful. And I think it builds your competence as a parent a lot where it's like, I have the strategies, I can do this now. Now that you've got the support that you needed.
Patricia Sung 39:07
Okay, I'm like I could talk about this all day, because it's one of my favorite topics, but let me start to wrap us up. So lightning round, all you have to do is answer the question. You don't have to explain anything. If you need to think about it for a second. You can think about it for a second. So event, Okay, number one, what is the best thing that you've read or listened to recently,
Dr. Carrie Jackson 39:23
a Psychology Today article by someone ought to send you the link. It is about perfectionism and ADHD, and how perfectionism and ADHD it's called like back into perfectionism, where it's like, everything needs to be perfect in order for me to complete the task versus I need my work to be perfect in order to complete the task is about I need the context and the environment to be perfect in order to complete the task that it was an amazing way to think about perfectionism and ADHD and it resonates with a lot of clients I work with
Patricia Sung 39:56
Okay, definitely when I say good, definitely like Okay, number two, my The most boring about me fact is,
Dr. Carrie Jackson 40:02
I would say that I've lived in four states and two countries. But then I'm gonna say an interesting one is that Bill Murray told me that I'm very nice and I used to work at a bakery and he bought a lot of bread from me and told me that it was very nice. And so that was a fun fact.
Patricia Sung 40:20
Okay, number three, when I'm having a rough day, my go to quote, song, poem, book activity, whatever is
Dr. Carrie Jackson 40:27
watching the trashiest reality TV ever.
Patricia Sung 40:31
Number four, don't tell anyone I.
Dr. Carrie Jackson 40:33
Oh, my goodness, these are so fun. Don't tell anyone that I have about 5000 emails I need to go through right now. But I have not answered.
Patricia Sung 40:42
I'm pretty sure we all identify with that one. Okay. Number five. If I had a magic fairy wand for one spell, I would,
Dr. Carrie Jackson 40:51
I would be able to teleport wherever I could whenever I wanted to. So I would not have to drive anymore or fly anymore.
Patricia Sung 40:58
Number six, the best piece of advice for mamas with ADHD
Dr. Carrie Jackson 41:02
is to offer yourself Self Compassion. Which means first acknowledging that what you're going through is difficult and knowing that there are other people out there who are going through it to so instead of being critical of yourself, just offering yourself Self Compassion.
Patricia Sung 41:17
Now, the moms are like, oh my goodness, better curious girl. I want to work with her. How can they work with you? Where do they find you? What's the deal?
Dr. Carrie Jackson 41:26
Yeah, so I would say there's a couple different ways that you can find me or work with me I am on Instagram Tik Tok, as Dr. Dr. Dot Carey Jackson just changed my way to a handle, but I am also so I'm located in the San Diego California area. And I have a private practice out here. And so I'm able to see parents kids do evaluations for ADHD too. But I also have some other resources for people who live outside of California like for teens as well, too. I have a team course that's actually coming out in February, which will be a lot of fun. And I have a lot of free guides. I will give you the link to that. But it's all located on my social media, of course, which is best way to find me and all my tips.
Patricia Sung 42:07
Awesome. Well, thank you so much for walking through this with us. I mean, emotional regulation is always going to be an area we work on, both for ourselves and for our kids. So I just thank you so much for coming here and sharing your wisdom and I hope you have an awesome day. Thank you.
Dr. Carrie Jackson 42:26
Thank you so much. Thank you for having me.
Patricia Sung 42:28
For more resources, classes and community head over to my website motherhoodinadhd.com