Mental Wellness + Amaze-Ability: How her life was changed by her late ADHD Diagnosis with “The MD with ADHD” Psychiatrist Dr. Dawn Kamilah Brown #188
When were you diagnosed with ADHD?
In honor of Mental Health Awareness Month, Dr. Dawn Kamilah Brown, “The MD with ADHD” joins us to share her advice on what to ask and disclose during your ADHD diagnosis appointment. She also explains what she wishes everyone knew about what’s next after leaving their ADHD diagnosis appointment. We cover the value of a full spectrum care plan: including your doctor, therapist, coaching, behavior management, medicine, ADHD-friendly strategies, and mental wellness care.
Late diagnosis of ADHD is increasingly common as we learn more about ADHD and how it shows up in adult women. Dr. Dawn knows well, as she was diagnosed well into her journey to becoming a psychiatrist. As she vulnerably opens up about the grief of a late ADHD diagnosis, Dr. Dawn shares how she picks herself up when she’s feeling low and how she balances being a multi passionate multiple business owner.
As one of the nation’s most acclaimed ADHD experts, double-board certified Child, Adolescent, Adult and Sports Psychiatrist, Dr. Dawn Kamilah Brown (aka Dr. Dawn Psych MD and "The MD with ADHD"), is an internationally recognized two-time #1 best-selling author, Forbes Writer, Blogger, Podcaster, Producer, Keynote / Corporate Speaker, and On-Air/Media-influencer.
She is also the Founder and CEO of Mental Healthletics PLLC ™ and serves as the company’s Sports Psychiatrist for elite (and retired) athletes of college and national sports organizations. Dr. Dawn is also the Founder and Chief Executive Officer of the ADHD Wellness Center PLLC and has two private practice locations in Texas, with a growing virtual presence. She also serves as a contract psychiatrist for 5 clinics; supervises 5 nurses in 2 states; and is licensed in 5 soon to be 9 states.
Dr. Dawn is the founder of “The ADHD Amaze-Ability Academy” which features a proprietary comprehensive ADHD Lifestyle Optimization Method to help home in realistic and successful strategies for #ADHDSupermoms who parent children with ADHD. She shares her medical expertise via her book series, “The ADHD Lifestyle;” by way of her Podcast, “From ADHD to Amaze-Ability;™” she was also a frequent on the national syndicate, the “Tom Joyner Morning Show” and “Black News Channel,” and has been called upon by large-sized corporations like Amazon, The Obama Foundation, Additude Magazine, Wells Fargo and National Sports Organizations, to provide her mental health expertise to leadership and their employees/athletes and consumers/communities.
Dr. Dawn is originally from Flint, Michigan, currently lives in Houston, Texas and is a Dog-Mom to a family of 3 toy yorkies.
Links mentioned in this episode:
Join Dr. Dawn’s online Facebook support and empowering group for female caregivers who parent children with ADHD: supermoms.group
Find Dr. Dawn on Instagram here:
@drdawnpsychmd
@adhdwellnesscenter
@mentalhealthletics
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Watch (or read) the free video here: https://www.patriciasung.com/medusa-mom
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Dr.Dawn Kamilah Brown 00:00
I want you to talk about your concerns. And if you're not able to do that you may not be with the right doctor.
Patricia Sung 00:05
Are you overwhelmed by motherhood and barely keeping your head above water? Are you confused and frustrated by how all the other moms make it look so easy. You can figure out how to manage the chaos in your mind, your home, or your family. I get your mama, parenting with ADHD is hard. Here is your permission slip to let go of the Pinterest worthy visions of organization and structure fit for everyone else. Let's do life like our brains do life creatively, lovingly, and with all our might. When we embrace who we are and how our brains work, we can figure out how to live our lives successfully, and in turn, lead our families. Well, at the end of the day, we just want to be good moms. but spoiler alert, you are already a great mom. ADHD does not mean you're doomed to be a hot mess mama, you can rewrite your story from shame spiral to success story. And I'll be right here beside you to cheer you on. Welcome to motherhood in ADHD. Hey there successful mama. It's your friend Patricia Sung. Today's guest is my very own ADHD Dr. Dawn Kamilah Brown, I have come to absolutely fall in love with Dr. Dawn over the last few years that she has been taking care of me. Not only because she takes good care of me, but she pushes me to be the best version of me that I can be she really cares about me as a whole person, not just you know, medicine checkup move along. She is the doctor who asks you like how are you sleeping? Are you eating food that is good for you? And is like energizing you? What are you doing to take care of yourself? Are you celebrating your wins because we're not very good at that she genuinely cares about her patients. And with so many stories that I hear of moms saying they don't feel heard and don't feel seen when they're in their appointments. Like I want you to know that people like Dr. Dawn out here. And that there are really wonderful caregivers out there who genuinely care about you and your progress and will ask about like the whole person that you are so that you really are treating your ADHD from a full circle effect that it's not just one thing or two things it is the full picture of who you are as a human being and how you're taking care of yourself. Dr. Dawn is a double board certified child, adolescent adult and sports psychiatrist. Not only does she have her own practice, but she also has mental health clinics where she helps professional athletes both active and retired. And she is blazing a trail as a woman of color in the medical field, especially within the field of ADHD. And I am so thankful that she is out there speaking her truth and showing what amazing things we can do and achieve when we have ADHD. As hard as it is to live with ADHD. It's also so valuable for us to know that we can be successful, especially when we have the support that we need to do well. And that is not only our family, or found family through friends, but our care team, all the ways that we can take care of ourselves. We have that support team, we can do so much. And we talk about that today. Like what does it truly look like to take care of yourself? How do you deal with the grief of learning that you have a late diagnosis ADHD? What do you need to know walking out of your doctor's appointment to set yourself up for success in that time of grief and acceptance and adjustment as you are moving through your ADHD diagnosis. And of course, Dr. Dawn shares her story from a place of vulnerability of the struggles that she's gone through to be where she is today and how she has kept going no matter what. Now I could sing her praises for another 20 minutes, but let's go ahead and dive in to the interview. Alright, let's welcome Dr. Dawn to the show. How are you doing today? I'm quite well.
Dr. Dawn Kamilah Brown 04:20
Thanks for asking, how are you doing, Patricia?
Patricia Sung 04:23
I'm good. I mean, granted, this is going to air on a Thursday, but it's a Friday today and I'm counting down to the weekend, which is rare. But we have a fun weekend ahead. So I first of all, I'm just so excited that you're here like full disclosure, you are my doctor and I always like shout with a megaphone like you need someone in your care team who truly understands ADHD. So I'm so excited to hear like all the questions that I've been waiting to ask. Thank you for having me. Just tell me a little bit about like, how did you come to find out that you had ADHD and like what that was like like for you?
Dr. Dawn Kamilah Brown 05:00
Yeah. Well, it's a pleasure to be here on your podcast. Thanks so much for doing what you're doing to spread awareness, information education, right so that people can make informed decisions. Yes, I honor you. I came to find out that he had aged 31 or 31 years old. I remember the day to a tee. I was actually was in one of my attendings, offices. So, we call our attendings, our actual doctors. I was actually in my child psychiatry fellowship program at Baylor and we were sitting in the office and I was actually talking to my attorney who happened to be my supervisor just about my upcoming boards because I'm double board so you have to take a billboards first and then child and so here I am preparing for four years ahead, right of all testing and so just you know, reminding her and sharing he knew reminding her about my test struggles while in school, I felt my boys five times in medical school or courses six years and I just didn't want to go through that again. Took all the test take courses are diagnosed with testing anxiety, I was recommended to take medicine, so just want to get our input and she had recommended my attending doctor Allah smiles internationally known for autism and ADHD research, as well as her husband, Dr. Brown's Matthew Brahms in Houston. And so they were running a research program and their opportunity. And she said, Hey, you should consider you know, let's let's go see for this program, and so filling out the information, and that was an ideal candidate. It was diagnosed with moderate ADHD. That's how I found out two months before I was suspected to graduate from my child fellowship program. After 27 years of being in school, I found out that I had moderate ADHD
Patricia Sung 06:38
in that moment, what went through your mind? Oh, man,
Dr. Dawn Kamilah Brown 06:41
a lot of things. Because, you know, thoughts are already going through my mind. Right? So first of all, I had to ask her again,
Dr. Dawn Kamilah Brown 06:53
correctly, because I'm thinking about other things. Yes. And then after asking her about four or five times, I'm like,
Dr. Dawn Kamilah Brown 06:58
what? Disbelief what? Really what, and then with the same emotions in the same space, like, explains a lot, I'm disappointed, I'm angry, I'm happy and joyful. I mean, just a lot of emotions. I was overwhelmed, actually. And it came out in the form of laughter and tears at same time. Because I always wanted a explanation of why my ability was not reflected in my work, missing things, not necessarily making the mark, I knew I knew how to do that. How did I miss that? Relationships, conversations, you know, a lot of things go through your mind. And then now I finally have an explanation. But it took 27 years of schooling to get to this point. And I took a day, I took a day of grieving because I had to grieve this old dawn that was, you know, a psychiatrist herself, you know, about to graduate, my child fellowship was already treating ADHD had opened up an ADHD clinic, but still, I was in my own denial. So immediately took a day to grieve. And within that day, scheduled my therapy appointments, and a lot of went on, and glass of wine, but grieved a lot of tears that day, wondering, well, how would this affect my ability to doctor? That was my number one concern? Should I give up now? You know, and I never give up. You know, I never questioned myself about my journey, even with the failures. And so there was a lot of bumps again, came on my mind.
Patricia Sung 08:23
This was actually one of the questions I'm going to ask later. But now we're on the topic, because like, that grief is so overwhelming when you all of a sudden, the puzzle pieces start matching up and it's like, Oh, how did I not know? How did no one else know how it's like all the like, like, like, why you picture like the theatrical like movie person like? Like, what is your advice for your patience? And like, you know, drawing on like what you did? Like, how do you deal with that grief of seeing, like, all the struggles of the past 27 years? What do you do with that? And how do you work through that? So very
Dr. Dawn Kamilah Brown 08:59
good question, because a lot of those adults that I see, it's kind of their similar experience, right. And I think for me, it was a little different because here I am a psychiatrist, and I should have known is my thoughts. But oftentimes, as human beings, we don't see ourselves for ourselves. And we often intellectualize the lack of the not meeting the mark, the overachiever not going to sleep until 4am. You know, those things that are just characteristically associated with executive function conditions like ADHD. So I actually needed help. I needed help. And I'm not at all ashamed of saying that and I, I encourage my patients, hey, take a minute, however long you need. I'm here to educate and inform but I have a therapist to assist me so well known therapists to not Well, no, but a therapist who understood ADHD and could give me more information just about my own condition that I'm an expert now on but I was treating then You know, and so I think that I have to become my own patient. I don't patient that allowed myself to be a patient with others about that. So that was a part of that. And then just letting go of those years of trying to understand why I had to study for five hours at a time without any breaks, and why I had to stop schooling in medical school when I was, and I say this, because that was what's important. I was class president for two years. And they noticed because I was supposed to deliver the speech. And here I am not delivering it. Because guess what, I got to sit out a year, you know, the humility of it all? And how about why did anyone notice? Why didn't my parents notice, you know, who are educators? My mom was, and, you know, so many things. But I had to grieve all of that. And so I took a stance on it, I accepted it, there was a process, I had to set my own kind of diagnosis, and then regroup. And then you know, start that journey of learning what's next? You know, what does this mean? For me, my professional life, my personal life? Yeah, my future?
Patricia Sung 11:06
How were you able to pull it together? And keep on going down this path of given that this is such a big part of who you are? And also in what you do every day? Like, where does that string come from, to say, you know, what, I'm doubling down and I'm going back at it,
Dr. Dawn Kamilah Brown 11:20
my patient, the thought of who I will be serving, and at the time, I didn't even dream of opening my own practice, I just dreamt of being with a practice where I could be an independent proprietor, if you will. So I can just come in, and you know, they do everything set up patients, I'll just turn off the light and see my patients and be on my way. So I could learn the practice that way. But I never thought I would focus in on being an ADHD expert. You know, I just want to see as many people as I could. So I knew that was probably when I wanted to do my own practice, because there was not enough support. I felt in the ADHD community, like, this is a point where I wasn't really on Instagram, I was on Facebook, and we were just talking about our lives, we weren't really educating people, it wasn't really an educational platform right out there, when I'm talking back in 2014, when I opened ABC Wellness Center, so I was like, You know what, I'm gonna have to do it myself. You know, I understand having ADHD, how I had to look for support and how rough that was. And I didn't see many people like me, you know, that looked like me that were psychiatrists that were admitting that ADHD I saw the opposite were don't tell anybody I don't want to put them on insurance and, and I get it because we live in a world that's not necessarily accepting and they call our condition a disability when we should really call it a different ability and an amazing ability when we find ways to manage it. And so it took some time but my patients my future patients, were really the ones that led me ever helped me to say Okay, I gotta buckle down and this is something I got to learn as much as I can about and I knew that he was there for everyone so I really studied hard with the researchers and read a lot of books that I read every he talks about various like it they got some of the experts now my friends because that's where we can really you know, have conversations about you know about their work but also outside of it had to buckle down and really get to and and learn about the condition I will eventually become an expert at not just my patients but in life.
Patricia Sung 13:24
Do you have any, like, favorite go to experts for I'm sure there's plenty of moms listening, like, tell me the books like where would you say like, here's my like top three, your top five, like, go here. This is good stuff.
Dr. Dawn Kamilah Brown 13:36
My number one is Dr. Barkley, I say that because as a researcher, I could imagine it could be difficult as a researcher to really explain things in laymen terms. I love how he talks, I could listen to him all day, actually I have and the how he presents in the content of what he's talking about in just checking in the resources that he uses, which I find he's he's a realist, and he's an expert, but he also tells you like it is, and just his approach. He's my number one guy, I tell people all the time I'm in love with how he just communicates and powers ADHD. And it's from a place of tragedy, right? I mean, his brother died who had ADHD in a car accident. And so how can this gentleman take tracks such tragedy and make it to where he's helping millions of people? Yeah, it in. So it's not necessarily in his particular literature, but in his level of engagement, that I really, really honor his work. And so I call him often, of course, Dr. Halliwell, right. I mean, one of the top two, your ADHD experts in our country has a lot of centers to, you know, provide awareness and education treatment for ADHD. I mean, just a phenomenal sweet tender person would say that has had A lot of experience in this area. And of course, you know, driven to distraction, I would say it's a book that you just probably have to read a couple of times, because it's a lot information compacted in one book. But when you listen to him, you can have some better explanations while he's explaining right, what he discusses and what his just models are in addressing and approaching ADHD. But then there are people like you and people that are females and platforms like attitude magazine. And, you know, it's really those type of people who may not necessarily be New York bestsellers, or be this well known researcher, but those who are talking out there about their personal experience. That's why I learned more from anyone. And so I just really appreciate but my patients, my ADHD community on social media, because I don't learn all. And I actually feel more empowered when I communicate with them and listen to their stories, because it reminds me, I'm not alone. It reminds me I got a while ago, and neurodivergent see is something that we should be empowered. And I love how many more people are coming out about their stories.
Patricia Sung 16:11
Yeah, and having that community there is one of the best things that you can do is knowing that you're not by yourself, like I mean, that's the whole reason I have the podcast is like I want moms said no, they're not the only ones who are dealing with all of us. So that's right. I want to circle back to you were saying like, there aren't a lot of people who look like you in this field. So how did you have the strength to say like, I'm gonna still talk about my struggles and be open with who I am given that you already have this whole layer of people's opinions and perspectives that I'm like, I mean, obviously, I can't say from my extreme like, but I'm guessing like, there's just a weight there that you feel, how do you still have the strength to be you and be who you are, and be open with your struggles, knowing that there's going to be people that are just going to like poopoo on you, because
Dr. Dawn Kamilah Brown 17:04
I say thank you to them, because it's because of them that led me to say, Okay, I'm going to talk about this under psychiatrists, there are going to be people who are going to question my abilities with their own care, people who question me having a condition and talking about it positively. And also being realistic about it as well. But often, you know, want to go back and say, Oh, I'm not so sure about her. You know, I questioned the naysayers. And I praise the naysayers with that. Because I remember the day when I said, I'm going to be known as the MD with ADHD, because this is real, like nothing against someone who doesn't want anyone to know. I mean, I definitely respect people's kind of stance on what they want to share and what they don't Yeah, exactly. You know, you don't have to share if you don't want to, but I knew I had a bigger calling with my boy failures. And with me being evaluated and tested and diagnosed when I was like nothing is coincidental. Everything happens in due time and for different reasons. And I knew that this column was bigger than me. So I had to come to terms with that and say, well, whatever comes with this, if this is what my destiny is to help as many people as I can in this area, especially those I can't find it look like me, I may have to be one of the first ones or four runners to do it. And so I did it. And I don't regret it one bit, I get those remarks. I get, you know, what's it hate email, but you know, emails or you know, things that are not necessarily so kind. But again, I don't worry about those because again, it's bigger than me. And I know my faith actually allows me to do what I do, oh guarantee, because if I didn't have the faith that this is something that I want to do. As far as being a doctor, I wouldn't have been here, I probably would have turned a different direction after that first failure. But I knew that this was my destiny. And so I have a VHS tape recording. I think it was around eight or 10, the one I recorded myself, so I'm going to make a lot of money on the newscast and wouldn't be a doctor and I have this on videotape. And it just brings Yeah, all right, it just goosebumps all over when I see that. And those are the moments where I always replay that tape and remind myself in moments that are not necessarily so pleasant what the mission is. And so I spoken at eight and to continue to speak at 45 and continue to help as many people as I can on one side. So I had to get over me and see that it was bigger than me that bigger picture. That's why I have this condition. People Yeah, to understand that Jerry's, you know, and maybe one doesn't have to understand the journey in order to treat it. You know, that's why I respect the barber. He didn't have ADHD his brother did, but he was affected and impacted by to a point where part of his story why he does what he does, right. And so I think we all have a relationship to what we do. We should you know, because I think our journey Our destiny is always Bigger than eyes if we acknowledge that we can keep going. Yeah, so we need to
Patricia Sung 20:05
do. I mean, you already said quite a few strengths that you get from your ADHD, but what are the some of the other things that you just are so grateful that you have, and then can also attribute them to having ADHD,
Dr. Dawn Kamilah Brown 20:18
creativity, it's gotten me through a lot of things, finding different approaches different ways to do things. I think, I was told by a locum tenens company, I was the only child psychiatrist that they knew at the time when virtual or tele psychiatry came on about I mean, I was doing this since 2014. But I want to remember, my mission is bigger than me. So I want to reach as many people as possible. And so I started early, I was trying to get a lot of, you know, my colleagues on board. And of course, our training teaches us we need to touch our patients, we can be there, I mean, just different things. And I got that, and I still get it. And I, I missed a little bit of that. But I'm able to teach people where it matters most, even if it's through a screen. So my creativity has definitely allowed me to do what I do well, my entrepreneurship as well doing things on my terms, you know, when I talked to my grandparents and how they'd been doctored, if you will, I mean, they had their doctors come to their place their homes, and I was like, I want to do that. And if I can do it, I can do it virtually, you know, and so, I wanted to get back to a place where I wanted to be a different doctor, to my patients. And I knew I couldn't do that within the type of structure of where mental health creates that. So I know that my way of engaging my patient has really benefited me, but hopefully my patients as well, as well as other areas of my life, you know, speaking writing books, doing my own podcast, you know, talking about my story, helping as many people as I can and their journey, and then when they're stuck, you know, I think it all works together. And so just being an entrepreneur and having different perspectives, I feel is a huge benefit of having ADHD that allowed me to do this. And then yeah, I will say having a lot of thoughts at once is not always a bad thing. Always let you know, just learning more about your distinct characteristic or features of your own ADHD and using them to your advantage or others, you know, where you can help other people I think is important. And so that's allowed me to be a better ADHD coach, because not one size fits all I have to really it. It led me to fully understand what a person's ADHD is, like, knowing what mine is like so that I can approach there's a little differently and be of benefit to them and coaching them. Yeah, so I think having ADHD brain help me do all those things are contributed at least.
Patricia Sung 22:42
So like in that entrepreneurship vein, like you have a lot of facets to your business, what prompted you to take on I mean, you literally have multiple businesses, what prompted you to say like, I can handle all this and do it well, and then how do you do it? Well.
Dr. Dawn Kamilah Brown 23:01
Secret sauce, right. Um, I try my best to do well, and then I know I'm human, I had to get my own ADHD coach, in order to understand that I could do it, how I wanted to do it. And that be a good piece or a good product. I know that I'm not a behind the desk person. Like most ADH years, I know that I wanted my hand and many cookie jars. Like, ah, there's, I know that I get bored easily. And I shift my focus often. And so I think with my desire to help as many people as I could help me, because that allowed me to agri businesses where I'm helping as many people as I can. And creating a schedule and routine of time and task management that allows me to balance as best as possible is key learning how to say yes to saying no is key and not being afraid to stop working even at your peak. Oh my god, I'm still working on that a little bit. That's key, it's a part of that balance. Because I mean, having ADHD, you know, we have our hyper focus moments and are like, sitting on the couch for two days moments when I know something is doing that's, you know, tomorrow, right? So, you know, the mindset is I need to get this done while the intention is there. But I think my routines have become so problematic, yet schedule and structured, where I feel good about, okay, if I gotta take a break, I'll just plan it different tomorrow. And there's not anxiety that's really preventing me from going forward. So learning learning about my ADHD is really helped. I mean, really, really learning about your ADHD and that means you really have to unveil yourself. And that's not easy, a lot of shame. A lot of guilt came out. When I invest in myself. I still think back those moments and I still have those moments. You know, this is a daily walk. You know, I'm just better at it. But I mean, the tears are coming you know, the eyes are broken now. Because I still have those moments. So I have to be real with myself like, this is not just okay I'm at in my journey like, this is like nah, I was diagnosed, you know, way back when but I'm still dealing with some issues, you know? Yeah. So just being human and allowing yourself the experience and the journey, but also celebrating your progress. That's so
Patricia Sung 25:22
important. That's actually one thing that I love that you always asked me is like, what do you have to celebrate? And my brain wants to go? Nothing? Nothing deserving. And you make me stop and think about what can I celebrate? And how am I taking care of myself? I feel like there's no negativity towards other doctors. There's just a lot of doctors who do their job and they check the box, and it's next person. And I feel like you're always like, but are you doing what you need to do to take care of you? It's not just let me check the boxes. It's truly are you taking good care of yourself? Which is a lot of what is easily overlooked in ADHD?
Dr. Dawn Kamilah Brown 26:04
It is, and it obviously is in mental health, right? Because when you think about it, Patricia, you know, let's think about this. Like, we go to a doctor's because we have a mental condition or mental illness, okay. And so every single last one of us may not have a mental illness, just like every single last one of us may have high blood pressure, diabetes, right. But every single last one of us is on the mend health spectrum. So I think as psychiatrists, we need to be better at checking in on mental wellness, mental health, which is different from mental illness. They're not wanting the same, right? And so I asked the same questions over and over again, you probably already know what the question I'm asking you met. But I do encourage you to stop and think live in the moment. How are you gonna celebrate getting some I mean, you have made tremendous leaps in your health management that I just, I'm just so proud of you about and you were your own advocate like that needs to be celebrated. You know what I'm saying? And people can learn from that. Like, I always tell people, you need to interview your doctors, you know, that's important, that you're working with someone who's educated, but also has room to not know at all. What I'm saying it'd be it'd be forthcoming with that, but we'll find out answers with you or for you. I try to encourage that conversation to let's talk about more than just medication. Let's talk about how are you balancing? When's your next vacation? You know, what's the last thing you did? For self care management? You know, did you did you enjoy yourself? Did you plan your next one, while you're in the moment? We were gonna always talk about the scenes because it's so important. So important, just overall mental health and wellness. Exactly right.
Patricia Sung 27:46
What do you do when you're really struggling to calm down when you're dysregulated, and your brain is offline? When reducer mom is about to rear her ugly head, and you don't want to yell at your kids again. But you also desperately need some time and space to yourself? Well, you're in luck, Ma. Because I've got a free video resource waiting for you. I'm sharing my top 10 tips for what to do when you're losing your cool and you need to resign each of these things you can do in under a minute with no fancy prep, so that you can calm down enough to make a different choice than exploring like a volcano on everybody in the vicinity. Now, since it's a video, you can watch what I do for easier practice. And of course, there's audio plus captions to read it. I also have a little cheat sheet underneath of all the ideas. So you can grab that list, sticking your phone somewhere so that I'm a time where you're like totally freaking out, you can go that list and quickly pick the idea that's going to help you calm down in that moment, head over to Patricia sung.com forward slash calm. That's ca LM and download your free video on how you can keep your cool when you're overwhelmed. That's Patricia sung.com, forward slash calm. Because you can learn how to take care of yourself so that you can take care of your family. In that vein, I do want to spend a couple of minutes in like these basics of ADHD care, because there's a lot of people I get a lot of messages. I assume you do too. But a lot of people will tell me like I went to the doctor, they told me I have ADHD, possibly they discuss medicine or not. And then they go on their way. And they don't get a lot of information on like, like, what do I do now? What's next? So the two part question of one, what are some of the questions that somebody can ask at their appointment to make sure that they're getting the information that would be good for them to have as they walk out the door? And then the flip side of that is like some of the answers of like, what do they need to know once their initial moment? Because a lot of times, it's like, What do you mean, I have it and then they don't like your brain is not online. Your brain is not like, Oh, let me think of all the questions I have. It's more just like this, like, What do you mean, and then you walk out the door you're like, Oh, well, I didn't I didn't ask any questions. But there's a lot of information that would be good to walk out the door with so This is kind of like a big question. But what are some of the questions we can ask when we're at our appointment? So we get the information we need? And then like, what would be some of the things that you wish everybody knew when they walked out the door of their diagnosis appointment?
Dr. Dawn Kamilah Brown 30:13
Very good question. Let's cover it. So it's kind of my way of making my doctor tell me at least five things. But I say, Hey, Doc, what are the five things that I need to consider as my next steps for someone to come up with at least five? Right? If it's about getting lab work, if it's about Well, let's talk about treatment options, and one of the treatment options, medication. And now there may be let's work on your sleep hygiene, you know, force your doctor to understand what their recommendations are, so that you can prepare your steps accordingly. And then let's say you're talking about one of the common things, of course I spend time on is pharmacological management, medication management. Well, what does that look like? How does that affect my brain? I wish more people will ask that I go into it, just because I want to start at a place where people feel comfortable. And they also know how these medicines work, you know, that's at least part of the stigma, right? We're just mental health, and you're trying to give me medicines, and how is that going to change who I am? Or how am I decision making and all that? Right? So let's talk about how this affects your brain and what happens what areas that we need to draw it out? Let's do that. So let's have that those type of conversations. And then what to expect short term and long term? Yes, if you're going to start this medicine, you know, my school of thumb is, I'm gonna see back four weeks, I think that's a adequate enough time, not too soon, not too late to where I get to understand how you're responding to this treatment, and very conservative in that. And then another question I often get is because this lifelong that, that take this every day that I generally say yes, just because that's how these medicines work for the brain, they don't have any reserves, you can just take it on Saturday, expect that it's going to work on Tuesday, you know, depending on what type of medicine so I'm particularly talking about the controlled substances. But, you know, let's talk about what's expected. So what it says on one side that these that you should look out for that should benefit you based upon your consignments always want to make it portable yet relatable to why they're coming. So I kind of usually go back to what their concerns or problems were. And, you know, highlight Well, this is going to help this area in your life. And this is something I want you to start looking out for. And this is going to tell me if it's therapeutic enough. And these are the side effects to notice, too, that may go away may not. So I you know, I tried to talk about the common side effects, I try to talk about the common symptom control that medications can have. And then I supplement that with just kind of learning simple behavioral management techniques without trying to be too overwhelming simple things that they can Yeah, that they can produce and use. But I wish people would ask me more about how this works is his lifelong, because I think that when I bring it up, it's different for some people, they fill into some me some people even made I feel intimidated by this, like, I don't want this, you know, versus if it's coming a place of concern for them. So let me just say that I want you to talk about your concerns. And if you're not able to do that, you may not be with the right doctor, I'm just saying. I mean, I needed a doctor for myself to do the same thing. And I had to change a couple of times to find that doctor, for me.
Patricia Sung 33:23
It's it's really important for people to remember what you just said, it's like you have to find the right person for you. Like they might be a wonderfully brilliant doctor and not be a good fit for you. Oh, yeah. Like, it's kind of like, you know, the same thing. Like there's lots of wonderful life partners out there, but you're not meant to marry everyone. And you want to find the person who's who's going to fit you that explains things in a way that you understand. And it may be nothing to do with either, like, it's not like one or both of you, there's something wrong with you that you don't mix. It's just not the right match for the two of you.
Dr. Dawn Kamilah Brown 33:54
You're exactly right. And one of the things that I going to charge people to think about is that your doctor may not be the perfect person to give you all the information that you need. I think that we also have to be like you're really good at this, Patricia, we have to be our own advocates and learn as much as we can. And there's many other doctors or advocates out there that we can learn from and still have a good conversation with our own doctor because our doctors are not going to know it all. They're just not they're human just like us. And so I find that the number one trait that I will turn a doctor is listening because I already know where they are. They've done the work they've done the research, they've done all the schooling, you know, they have the basic you know, management keeping me safe regard, you know, based upon their recommendations, but you said it, a person that's going to cater to my needs by listening first to me, that's catering to my needs my listening. We may disagree on you know, your recommendations or the treatment option, but when I feel heard, I know that what you are recommending is likely safe and may be effective for me because you've listened to You showed me that you've listened to me. Oh my god, if I can't say that enough, that's where the trust builds. And that's why people there stay with me forever. They know. Yes. I mean, that's just real. I mean, just the feedback. Yeah, no. I mean,
Patricia Sung 35:14
that's one of the things I love about you is that I feel like I can say, whatever I'm feeling, you're not going to judge what I'm saying. Like, I think that's part of the beauty of having a doctor that's very familiar with ADHD, or has ADHD themselves, like, you're not judging me for, like, I can actually be honest. And I think this is where a lot of people struggle is that they don't want to be honest, because of all that shame. Like, not on purpose of like, I want to lie, but it's just like, all the shame that layers on have like, I can't tell them that then they're gonna think this, or like, and I don't want to admit this, like, that's heavy. So to know, like, I can just be honest with you, and you're not going to judge me, but you're also gonna be like, Patricia, no, you will hold me to it, you won't let me slide, right. Like this, like the loving strictness of like, I'm gonna make you do this. But also, it's because I really care about you.
Dr. Dawn Kamilah Brown 36:00
That's it. Yeah. Because I genuinely do care about people, particularly the people I serve. That mean, that's why I'm in this profession. If you don't care about people
Dr. Dawn Kamilah Brown 36:09
you serve, you know, the wrong profession,
Dr. Dawn Kamilah Brown 36:12
you know, I'm saying this is definitely not for money, not for fame. I mean, we do hard work. And if you're not doing hard work, again, you're probably not in the right profession. I'm not saying you need to overwhelm yourself, but you need to be reading every day, at least a little bit about your work and being a doctor, because medicine changes every single day. And so, you know, I'm saying that, because I'm real about it, you know, I take this work seriously. And I think having this condition allowed me to approach it even more genuinely, like, I need to know really thoroughly about this condition. If I have, and I'm trying to manage someone else's. What does that look like? You know, and I know not on 10 every day, about the days when I'm on five? How can I still be the best at five, and not just take the day off? Or cancel the appointment? When I'm not doing? Well? Yeah. So you know, I had to put in a lot of work in order to find those spaces for me in places so I can be the best for my patients. Because again, that's the motivating factor are my the people I serve, always and will always will be.
Patricia Sung 37:22
So I know that, like unfortunately, ADHD does not get a very large portion of instruction in med school. There's not a lot chapters on it, let's say in book, how can someone know when they're looking for their doctor that this person really does understand ADHD and has information about it, we're like, this is a really solid choice for you versus like, oh, this person really doesn't know what they're doing. And maybe you should look elsewhere in this area.
Dr. Dawn Kamilah Brown 37:49
Yeah, I think I mentioned I have switched up backwards a couple of times, because I really wanted to get to two perspectives from the doctors that I chose to manage ADHD. One was, what is your professional opinion about this condition? And what is your personal opinion about this condition? You'll be surprised that some doctors, it may not necessarily be the same. I know doctors who don't believe in ADHD, but has the treat it. So I think it's important to understand their perception, as well as asking the hard questions like Do you believe ADC is real? What is your treatment strategy for this condition? What is your experience with this condition? Do you see a lot of patients with this condition? And that's objective? What is a lot? You know, again, I encourage my patients into my doc or their doctors, because that's when you know, you found the one for you, because they've answered your questions. They're not offended by your questions, and you're comfortable with their answers. You know, I think everyone has their own level and way of approaching what that is for them. And so that's why I encourage people to have those conversations, even for treatment stars, get to know your doctor, at least on that professional level. But also ask that personal question, because I think that's important I do is because of what I said, some don't believe in it, but they're just there to treat it because they have to. And I don't want a doctor that like that. Especially my doctor doesn't have ADHD, you know, I've never met a doctor that did have ADHD, and still didn't believe it was real. So I think you just get a different type of treatment when that I mean, it's just something to consider. And again, I'm sometimes it goes against the grain and I'm okay with that. But that's really been my experience. And I think I have the best treatment with a non ADHD doctor who values me as someone who always speaks up for themselves and want to know more about their own ADHD.
Patricia Sung 39:44
It can be very frustrating to know that there's people who still don't think it's real, but it's a whole lot better to find out in appointment one that this isn't going to work. It's just gonna like we wouldn't first of all, you know, I want to know in the first day that you're missed, and then I gotta go find someone else. Oh,
Dr. Dawn Kamilah Brown 40:00
yes, I mean, I think since 2020, I'd actually encourage patients to ask the receptionist, does your doctor treat adult ADHD? Or you know if it's an adult, right, because I know psychiatrists who don't treat it. And so why would make an appointment? Yeah, but you're exactly right. How frustrating it is. I mean, ADHD is one of the most steady mental health conditions in the world. We may have more Canadian Studies in British Columbia studies on the condition just in general, but it is one of the most studied medical conditions yet the most misunderstood problem, because there are millions of people walking around with this condition, not even aware and wondering why their divorce failed, or let me finish school either, you know, using abusing substances. And I'm not saying that that is a direct correlation. But in many cases, we have found that the risk factors are just too great for this condition to be on diagnose, and therefore unmanaged.
Patricia Sung 40:59
Oh, my gosh, there's so many things you said right there that I want to jump on? And I'm like, Nope, can't jump on all of them. Which one? I'm going to pick the hard one, because I asked you at the beginning, if we could, you said jump in with the hard stuff. This is one of the things that I really wonder that granted, there's not a ton of research around it. There's, you know, some but just from how I have absorbed information in working with a lot of people with ADHD is that it just feels like there are so many correlations between alcohol abuse, drug abuse, like all these, like unhealthy for us versions of coping mechanisms. And it's not addressed like, I guess, maybe more like, I want to say like, have you seen that as well? And like, granted, it's just like a more observational thing. But like, is this a more serious issue that we really do need to talk about more? And then underneath that of like, what can we do about that? People like you and me, maybe not like society as a whole? But,
Dr. Dawn Kamilah Brown 41:58
yeah, so first of all, yes, it's a very serious and dangerous issue, that we're not talking about enough. There is a high correlation between ADHD and substance use and abuse dependence. Some people even say a dip personality. Yes. I mean, when when you have someone who's abused alcohol for so long, and I'm asking about ADHD, I mean, I've had people really come to my office and say, Hey, I mean, I've been in substantive treatment program 1011 12 times, and no one's ever told me I do or suspect. Yeah, my work. I mean, this is one of the most correlated conditions that we're finding in adults with this type of situation. So yes, I mean, I don't think we're talking enough about it. I live in a world I envision where I live, I envision a world where we have mental checkups that we normalize that I mean, if that means that while you're getting your physical exam, why don't you get those radio skills for the GED to see if there's other or additional, you know, evaluations that need to be done? Why not meet that apart of a typical workup? I mean, we focus on the physical, less the mental, emotional, and let's add an anxiety, depression, all those other common mental health conditions that we can actually get ahead of, because it's about preventive care. And if you know you have a family history, then let's talk about that. Because a lot if not all of our conditions are genetically predisposition to have high risk factors there to like ADHD, that's why punishments making don't work. So like, this is more your genetic line. This has nothing to do with their you know,
Dr. Dawn Kamilah Brown 43:38
so. Yeah,
Dr. Dawn Kamilah Brown 43:39
I mean, I think it should be a part of the conversation from the very beginning. I mean, I envision a world and there's a lot of research on this to where we have infant mental health, we can look at infants, and we can actually at three months old, we can actually look and Intel, if they're at risk of developing depression seriously, like this is real, like if it mental health is out there. It's real. And it's, and we have a lot of research that's developing from it. So let's start at the beginning of life, you know, let's start with a mother who's pregnant with you know, something that's going on and what those risk factors are, let's start with the baby's born. And let's just follow them and it doesn't mean that we're going to put on any other type of stigmas on this person. No, this should be treated just like we do our physical evaluations. That's why I said that so that people understand my approach to this issue important.
Patricia Sung 44:33
Okay. I just feel like that, the more that I dig in, I'm just like, I just feel like there's so much that can be prevented, because like we see these people who are very successful with ADHD, it can be done. Yes. Those people have that the other people don't and to me, a lot of it is the support and the care they have. So like here, you know, you have ADHD and you end up in prison or you have ADHD and you end up with CEO of something, where's the difference? What was the supporting?
Dr. Dawn Kamilah Brown 45:04
Oh, yes, you hit hit the nail right on the head, let is the differentiating factor or factors that you know diverse that road right to either it's harmful or it's benefiting. And then within those two stories, let's explore even further, right. But I also believe that it's not just about treatment with medication management, I want to just say that here, because I strongly believe in behavioral management, I strongly believe in mental health literacy and educating yourself. I strongly believe in nutritional psychiatry and how it contributes to mental health, sleep hygiene, I mean, all the natural things that we have as human beings and what we should be doing and how we operate. And those are also contributing to any condition that we have to regardless what the condition is. And so particularly within a function condition, that's even important as well. Yeah. And I think that also allows people like athletes, for example, who work out in every day, and you have conditioning periods, I mean, they're often their mental illnesses mass, just because they use exercise and nutrition to be healthy, physically and emotionally, mentally. But then when that stops, or there's a break, or there's an injury, you know, it's not just about, oh, my sprain or, you know, I tore my ACL, it's all about like, oh, my gosh, I really don't know my kids, because this is the first time I really had to sit with them. And, you know, I'm always on the road and my wife or my husband and my friend. Yeah. So I mean, yeah, I can go on and on, because this is such a huge topic to discuss. And that's a really big question, we need to start answering, how can we make this a condition where people can live well, and optimally with very question,
Patricia Sung 46:47
to me, it also speaks volumes that you do have coaching as part of your practice, because I think a lot of people think your only choices, medicine, and then that's it, and there's so like, that's just one one tool, you have to take care of you and there's so much more that goes into it. But to know that you value that so much that it's part of what you do is like a testament to the validity of like, it's not just about your medicine, it truly is like your whole person and taking care of everything from sleep to nutrition to your schedule in your routines. And, and and and and it's not just one thing, and that here really is full. Yeah,
Dr. Dawn Kamilah Brown 47:30
exactly. And especially for those of us who were diagnosed in our adult years, because we weren't graced enough to have the accommodations in school, you know, a lot of us had to start from the beginning and learning different ways to manage our condition that we just found that we had late in life, but he's always been there. And the world just doesn't accommodate to us that we're working on changing that would know divergently. But yeah, I mean, it's kind of like starting all over in different areas of your life. And then also, again, that grieving process of explaining things like that divorced three or four times, or that's why I feel that job miserably, or that's why I'm bankrupt or can't, you know, maintain my financial goals, and that's on me, come on, you're talking about a bunch of condition we use it for every single thing we do is going to fit every single thing you do, right, and give reason to a lot of things that you do. And so it's not just about taking a medicine if it were man having won the Nobel Prize and
Dr. Dawn Kamilah Brown 48:29
right, we understand this
Dr. Dawn Kamilah Brown 48:31
only part of it. Yeah, the medicine doesn't make you get out of bed and do what you need to do. It doesn't make you start and things make make it easier. But you still have to have initial drive understanding and commitment to fulfill that goal. You know, that task. So I think it's equally as important. Knowing how ADHD is origin and how it affects us. Yeah.
Patricia Sung 48:53
Okay. I could ask you like 37 million more questions. But I gotta I gotta wrap it up. Yes, I would love that. But before we do lightning round questions, would you please share with the moms where they can find you how you can help them in specifically where you can go where your licensure licensure license? Listen, okay. I don't know what are some that word did not come out. Right. Where are your license? So many people asked me like, who should I see? And I'm like, You should go see Dr. Dawn, but I know that you can't diagnose everyone under the sun. So like, who can you treat? But then also, how else can you support them? And where did they go to find that? Yes,
Dr. Dawn Kamilah Brown 49:31
I would love to so I actually have a group on Facebook called ADHD supermoms and these are primarily female caregivers who parent children with ADHD but most of them have ADHD themselves. So he supermoms it's a private group. It's about a little over 500 Moms for caregivers, female caregivers, we would love to have you join us. We're nationwide. Most of my mom's in the group are from United States, Australia, British Canberra and then you know my practice at she Wellness Center. The home bases in Texas, Houston, Texas. But again, I'm virtual than virtual since 2016. I'm also licensed in Colorado, Illinois, Georgia, Florida, in Texas. And then I'm soon to be licensed in California, Connecticut, Nevada and New York and Michigan. Yeah, so adding some more states
Dr. Dawn Kamilah Brown 50:20
to the list. Yeah.
Dr. Dawn Kamilah Brown 50:23
But even if you call my practice and for whatever reason, you can't see me, I may not be the psychiatrist for you. My practice is definitely more than willing to assist you in locating additional people in our area or whatever other state that you're in, we'll give you some resources where you can start to look and discover who may be you know, in your location, your area and make sure you interview them before making that decision.
Patricia Sung 50:47
Awesome. Okay. All right. Lightning round questions. All you have to do is fill in the blank. You don't have to explain anything. Okay, number one, oh, my
Dr. Dawn Kamilah Brown 50:55
ADHD okay.
Patricia Sung 51:02
Okay, number one, the best thing that I read or listened to recently is social virtue and vengeance. The book, my most boring about me fact is
Dr. Dawn Kamilah Brown 51:14
most boring. I would say that
Dr. Dawn Kamilah Brown 51:16
sometimes I'm often quiet and people wonder Yeah, cuz I'm listening. So sometimes often quiet so sometimes that's because they're bored. I mean, look, I'm explaining. So my quietness.
Patricia Sung 51:27
Number three. When I'm having a rough day, my go to quote, Song poem book, podcast activity, whatever
Dr. Dawn Kamilah Brown 51:33
is by Donnie McClurkin. I trust you. You're
Patricia Sung 51:38
number four, don't tell anyone I,
Dr. Dawn Kamilah Brown 51:41
I stay up sometimes till 330 In the morning doing nothing when I have
Patricia Sung 51:46
ADHD Hallmark, their number five. If I had a magic fairy wand for one spell, I would
Dr. Dawn Kamilah Brown 51:55
empower everyone with ADHD to just show how awesome special they are, and that they deserve many chairs.
Patricia Sung 52:02
A seat at the table. And last one, number six. My best piece of advice for mamas with ADHD
Dr. Dawn Kamilah Brown 52:08
is to give yourself grace. It's a journey. It's not your fault. But give yourself grace so that you can be the best for yourself, and therefore, your child can be at their best.
Patricia Sung 52:19
Thank you so much for being here. I really appreciate it.
Dr. Dawn Kamilah Brown 52:24
Thank you for having me. I love what you do. Oh my gosh, I love what you do. Keep going. Thank you so much for being a strong advocate for our community. We really need you we do. We really need you. And it's an honor to be here with you.
Patricia Sung 52:40
For more resources, classes and community head over to my website http://www.motherhoodinadhd.com