Failure is Required from Here’s What I Learned with Jacki Hayes #235
Meet my friend Jacki, host of the Here’s What I Learned Podcast. In this episode, Jacki and I chat about the successes and struggles of owning a business when you have ADHD.
Jacki shares:
In today's episode, I talk with Patricia Sung about the challenges and benefits of starting a business as people with ADHD. Patricia shares the importance of seeking support and finding a balance between flexibility and structure when running a thriving business. We also chat about managing energy levels, prioritizing tasks, and creating more balanced schedules. Finally, we discuss the significance of failing early and often to gain data we can use to create success.
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Jacki Hayes is a Systems Strategist and Operational Support Specialist who offers her clients custom-crafted systems and exceptional operational support so they can run the business of their dreams, create greater impact, and unplug from their business with confidence. When she's not supporting her clients, she's bouldering, lifting weights, or reading a book with her two cats Raven and Starfire.
Welcome to the Best of Friends Series, where you are meeting a few of my friends in the podcast community. I’m sharing interviews that I have done on other friends’ podcasts. Not only do you get a new episode, I hope that you’ll find a few shows to add to your podcast queue.
There’s a wide variety of topics coming your way, so keep an eye out for a new friend every other week of the summer.
With a community of ADHD moms to lift you up when you’re struggling, you’re ready to take a baby step forward.
It is possible to plan your week and achieve it, even with ADHD.
Sign up at patriciasung.com/meetup
Watch this 2 min video of our last ADHD moms retreat!
Patricia Sung [00:00:02]:
Are you overwhelmed by motherhood and barely keeping your head above water? Are you confused and frustrated by how all the other moms make it look so easy? You can't figure out how to manage the chaos in your mind, your home, or your family. I get you, mama. Parenting with ADHD is hard. Here is your permission slip to let go of the Pinterest worthy visions of organization and structure fit for everyone else. Let's do life like our brains do life, creatively, lovingly, and with all our might. When we embrace who we are and how our brains work, we can figure out how to live our lives successfully, and in turn, lead our families well.
Patricia Sung [00:00:45]:
At the end of the day, we just want to be good moms. But, spoiler alert, you are already a great mom. ADHD does not mean you're doomed to be a hot mess, mama. You can rewrite your story from shame spiral to success story, and I'll be right here beside you to cheer you on. Welcome to Motherhood in ADHD. Hey there, successful mama. It's your friend, Patricia Sung.
Patricia Sung [00:01:09]:
While I am on break for the next few weeks, I am bringing you some friends. This is my Best of Friends episode, and these are all interviews that I've done for other people's podcasts. First of all, thank you to these hosts for sharing their episode with us. And I want you to go in the show notes and see where do you find them? Go listen to their other episodes. Put their show in your queue, in your download list so that you have an extra friend to hang out with when you're cleaning or on a walk walk or riding in the car. Every time I am interviewed, I find myself often sharing very similar things, but there's always some nuances and new things that, oh my, wow, I have never shared that before. I've never talked about this in this way. And I can't wait for you to get a new flare and perspective and, a new podcast friend to join you today.
Patricia Sung [00:01:57]:
So listen in to this episode on a friend's podcast. Go check them out and enjoy this Best of Friends episode. Meet Jacki Hayes from Here's What I Learned. You have to fail in order to learn, and that's okay. It is not a reflection of you.
Jacki Hayes [00:02:12]:
Welcome to Here's What I Learned. I'm your host, Jacki Hayes, system strategist and operations support specialist. My guest and I share the lessons we've learned about making value based decisions, leading our teams in new ways, and rejecting traditional business advice, and that advice doesn't align with the life we want to live. If you're a solopreneur or small business owner tired of the same old scale for the sake of scaling way of doing business, then you want to stick around and take a listen. So put in those earbuds, get your morning miles started, and enjoy the episode. On today's episode, I'm talking with Patricia Sung. Patricia helps moms with adult ADHD work with their unique brains and get their ish together one step at a time and feel confident running their family life. She hosts motherhood and ADHD, a top five parenting podcast, encouraging mamas with practical strategies and relatable missteps.
Jacki Hayes [00:03:05]:
She's a hobby hopping anxious adventurer willing to try almost anything. Take a listen to our episode. I hope you enjoy our conversation. Hi, Patricia. Welcome to here's what I learned. We're gonna kick things off by asking you, what does it mean to you to do business your way?
Patricia Sung [00:03:23]:
Well, first of all, thank you, Jacki. I'm so excited to be here. I love talking business. Let's see. The most important thing to me when I do business my way is how do I make this easier for myself? How do I make this go faster? How do I make it simpler? How do I make it easier for me to get to the goal? Because I really wanna get to the goal. How do I do it in an easier way, especially navigating my own ADHD? If it's not easy, I'm not doing it, or or I'm gonna complain a whole lot while I do it, and I don't want either of those. So how do we make this easy?
Jacki Hayes [00:03:59]:
Can you give me an example of something in your business that maybe at the start, you did it a way that you were told to do it or you thought you should do it and you have found a way to make it easier? Like, is that the entire way of running your business?
Patricia Sung [00:04:13]:
I'm like, every everything. I wish I had known everything when I started. I think one of the, like, biggest changes that I've made is that I now run my business on cycle syncing. And so I like, right now, when we're doing these, podcast interviews, like, I have multiple interviews set up this week and next week because I actually would like to talk to people this week and next week. And the week after, I don't wanna talk to you. Go away. I don't wanna talk to you. So now that I've set up my business in a way that it fits me and how I work best, oh my god.
Patricia Sung [00:04:49]:
Like, it's just so much easier because when you don't wanna talk to people, you don't like, not only do like, I want it to be a really great experience when I have someone on my or when I'm showing up for someone else's podcast. Like, this is sacred space. You're giving me a space to be with your people. Like, I really value that. I don't wanna show up on the day where I'm like, like, that's not the kind of experience I wanna give. So when I match my business to the way that fits me in a, like, overall arching people, like, specifically through cycle syncing. Like, it's just so much easier. And I wish I mean, I wish I'd known this as a teenager when I first started getting my period, and I also have I can go on a whole rant about this, about how we expect women to be the same every day of the week and every day of the month when that is not how we were built.
Patricia Sung [00:05:35]:
But it when you lean into what works for you, it is so much easier.
Jacki Hayes [00:05:39]:
It really is. Now I know that some of the listeners are probably listening to this, and they're thinking, there's no way I could set up my business to go with my cycle. Like, my clients want me x, y, or z. It doesn't matter to them what my cycle is. How did you start that process?
Patricia Sung [00:05:56]:
Well, first, I just learned about it and said, like, well, what what if I did try it? Like, what would it look like? And I love asking questions. One of my nicknames from a friend of mine in, college was captain question. So I I love asking questions in much to some people's dismay because they're like, can you can you stop? But if I just sit there and ask the question, like, hey. What would this look like if I did? And I started to ask people around me who knew. So I had podcast guest on my podcast that knew about this, and I started asking friends who had talked about it and figured out, like, well, this it might work. It did feel very hard at first because, like, having ADHD, sometimes when you put parameters around things, it feels very like I caged myself in, and now I don't wanna do that. Like, don't tell me what to do. Pass Patricia.
Patricia Sung [00:06:45]:
Don't tell me what to do. But once you see, like, how much easier it is to do those things, it's like, wait a second. Why didn't I always do it this way? Like, the fact that it is so much easier makes it really easier to continue down that path. So I didn't, like, revamp my entire business at first. First, I was just like, okay. Well, if it if you tend to be, like, not wanting to be around people while you're on your cycle, how about I just make that week later? Like, how about I just try not to schedule too many things that week? Even if it's like okay. Let me back up. People with ADHD tend to be all or nothing thinkers.
Patricia Sung [00:07:24]:
We're like, if I'm gonna do this, I am gonna go whole hog. We're gonna buy all the tools. We're gonna buy all the craft supplies. We're gonna do all the things. We go big. And that is really wonderful for a lot of times, but it's not a hard and fast rule. So it's okay to be like, what if I just scheduled fewer meetings when I have my period? What happens then? Did anybody fire me? Did anybody get mad at me? No. No.
Patricia Sung [00:07:49]:
They didn't. So okay. Well, what if I adjust it a little more to fit that? So we don't have to, like, change everything right away, which is what we love to do. But then we follow it for 3 days, and then we we give up on it. Like, I don't need to wake up a new person tomorrow. Pause, time out. Can I just make a little bit of adjustment, see what happens, and then make a decision if I liked it or?
Jacki Hayes [00:08:13]:
And I like, your example of the just try and have a lighter meeting week, because I think a lot of us don't realize the impact that could have whether regardless of where you are in your cycle, I started blocking off what I call my minimal Zoom week. And so I'm not doing podcast interviews for my podcast or somebody else's. I'm not doing discovery calls, anything like that. I am just doing the essential calls. And even some of those may feel essential, but they're really, really not. And what I discovered in doing that and saying, hey. You know, we're gonna meet with my clients 3 out of the 4 weeks out of the month. And then 1 week, we're just not gonna meet.
Jacki Hayes [00:08:51]:
If you need to talk to me, Voxer's always there. And I know and then I know also Sarah and Amanda from Big Brave Business Podcast tried this as well. And their clients were all like, thank you. You have no idea how much stuff I got done. I took your example, and I was able to have this focused week, and I just got things done or I rested that week or whatever it happened to be. But I think when we make a step like that, we can be an example to others and they can see the benefit of it as well.
Patricia Sung [00:09:20]:
Yeah. And even if you're, like, if you're thinking like, well, I don't have a regular cycle or maybe you're a dude listening. You don't have a cycle at all. Like, this idea of, like, making your schedule fit you doesn't have to hold to this pattern. Like, what is it that's going to work for you? I think all of us would do better with, like, a week where it's just, like, tone it down a little bit. Let's rest a little more. Like, not having all these meetings on your calendar gives you space to work on the big projects that you've been meaning to do for who knows how long, but never got around to it. Like, these like, this idea of not every week has to be the same.
Patricia Sung [00:09:57]:
I don't have to go a 100 miles an hour every week, all day, hustle culture. Go. Go. Go. Like, we don't have to do that all the time. It's okay to take a week and say, even if you have no idea what like, how it relates to your hormones. Like, I'm just gonna have a chill week. I'm gonna clean out the thing that I've been meaning to clean out, like your proverbial, you know, closet clean out of your business or work on that cool thing.
Patricia Sung [00:10:21]:
But to have the space to do that, like, especially if you have ADHD, like, we need that white space. We need space for our brains to wander and run around and listen to all the cool ideas floating around our brains, and that wandering white space is so good for you. So even if it's not in time with your body, having that space where a week is different can really be helpful and restful and actually brings you to be so much more efficient because you've had that space to slow down for a sec.
Jacki Hayes [00:10:55]:
Yeah. Yeah. I also find that building white space into your calendar is very helpful. Just one, so that you actually take time for it. Or, you know, I address. Exactly. I do what I call buffer space because inevitably, something that I think is going to take 15 minutes takes me 30 minutes or vice vice versa or whatever. So I always try to have at least an hour of buffer space in my day.
Jacki Hayes [00:11:22]:
And if everything takes the amount of time that I thought it was gonna take, great. I have this space that's now available that I could use to, you know, do more work or go outside and take a walk or whatever it happens to be zone zone out with scrolling on Instagram, whatever I happen to need at the time. But that buffer space just kind of relieves the pressure for for me at least So just like freak out because something's not going the way I want it. Well, that's okay. You know, I can breathe. I can take my time. I've got a little bit of extra space here on my calendar.
Patricia Sung [00:11:55]:
Yeah. And that's something I have to work really hard at. Like, I I tell all my clients about the importance of buffer space. Do I always take my own advice? No. And as soon as soon as things start to go south, I'm like, oh, buffer space. That's, like, 80% of the time, that is the problem is that I was working on the, like, ideal unicorn expectation that this was gonna go great, and everybody knew what they were doing. My team knew exactly. They read my mind perfectly.
Patricia Sung [00:12:23]:
They knew exactly what was gonna happen. Like, that yes. Sometimes we get unicorn days, but most doesn't happen. We don't. And having that buffer space in is what allows that difference between the expectation of this is going well and this is going horribly. A lot of times, especially for people with ADHD is like, if did did you give yourself buffer space? Like, even in, like, in life, we need buffer space. Like, I know you've got a kid. Like, if you think you're gonna be able to be out of the house in 10 minutes and then all of a sudden somebody can't find their shoe, oh, look.
Patricia Sung [00:12:57]:
This person has to poop. And all of a sudden you're like, I thought we could leave in 10 minutes, and now we're 30 minutes later, we still have an exit at the house. Buffer space is what allows us to do that. And being okay that there's gonna be empty space sometimes can be really hard for us. I hate doing nothing that that like, that's why I have to make myself rest because otherwise, I'm like, nothing? Cool. Let's do cool project. And, like, no. That's not the Patricia Rainey didn't.
Patricia Sung [00:13:28]:
Like, that's how we get burnt out. So when we leave that space, it may feel awkward. But if you know what you will do with that space, so that's not technically empty space, then it feels a lot better. So, like, I know if I show up somewhere early, in my purse, I have Uno go cards to keep the kids entertained. I usually have my notebook with me, like my bullet journal so I can work on something if I need to keep myself occupied. Like, it's not like I'm gonna show up and be like, what do we do here? There's nothing. Like, that in my brain, that's what's gonna happen. But, actually, if I already know, okay.
Patricia Sung [00:14:03]:
Here's the 3 things I could do in this space to keep kids entertained and, like, you know, make a phone call you need to make what whatever it is, it feels a lot it buffers that, idea that, like, oh, no. What if I if I plan empty space? Am I a lazy human who doesn't care to be productive? But no, you can still get things done. Also, you don't have to be productive all the time. That's not your job. But like. That buffer space is like literal gold, especially for entrepreneurs, because nothing ever goes according to plan.
Jacki Hayes [00:14:37]:
Nothing ever goes according to plan. And I always tell my clients, you know, don't plan for more capacity. We always think that in the future, we're gonna have more capacity for whatever reason. Guess what? We won't. We probably will have less. You know?
Patricia Sung [00:14:53]:
Something's gonna happen. The refrigerator broke. Now my car needs coolant. Like, this week, the exterminator they had squirrels in the attic. Had a cold exterminator. It's like you can't plan for those things. But when we don't have white space, then it's like, oh, well, crap. I can't leave squirrels in my attic chewing up my stuff.
Patricia Sung [00:15:08]:
But also, when's this exterminator gonna come? Like, that is what allows you to be flexible and not feel like you're gonna like, your head's gonna explode.
Patricia Sung [00:15:20]:
What if there was a way to put together your plan for the week so that you actually wanted to do the planning? You wanted to show up and figure it out. Because now your day is smoother, easier, calmer, it flows. You're not surprised by that field trip or that dentist appointment. You know that that's coming. What if you had support to make the plan so you can actually follow through on it and feel good about yourself? This is the place to be to get your ish together. You are invited to successful momma meetups. It's a twist on productivity and community. It's time set aside to make your weekly plan followed by hanging out with other moms with ADHD who get you.
Patricia Sung [00:15:58]:
So, you don't need to earn the fun. You're intertwining them in the same event. So, you wanna show up every week. For just a few dollars a week, you'll have your plan set so that you can accomplish the tasks you need to get done. You know when you're trying to work on your next business idea or do that fun craft with your kids who's been sitting on the counter for months. You know the answer to the dreaded, what's for dinner? You are present in the conversation with your kids after school or at dinner because you aren't a ball of stress. You can take care of you when you have a plan. When you have this, you feel confident, capable, energetic, hopeful, relieved like you can breathe.
Patricia Sung [00:16:36]:
So sign up now at patriciasung.com/meetup, and welcome to the successful mama community. We also have a group where you can connect with other moms because this isn't just about the time that we're together, this is about building your support system. So join us every week. Sign up now at patriciasung.com/meetup.
Jacki Hayes [00:17:01]:
So the you've mentioned that you have ADHD, and gonna guess that in the corporate world, from whatever ever free conversation I've had, that having ADHD is a real struggle in corporate world because there is a very set way of doing things on a very set schedule. You show up at this time. Your butt stays in a seat, whatever it happens to be. So I imagine starting your own business that allows you to then build something that supports you and the way you work best. What was that, or is that like for you?
Patricia Sung [00:17:39]:
So I come from so I did corporate, and then I became a teacher, and I taught middle school, which middle school is like the epitome of structure. You got your bell schedule. It moves along precisely every day, and all of that built in structure was glorious. I did not realize it at the time, but it kept me on track most of the day. Where I struggled was, like, after school, and it's like grading papers. Oh, look. Now I'm scrolling my phone. Oh, wait.
Patricia Sung [00:18:03]:
Hold on. I gotta plan my lesson for tomorrow. Like, that open space, I did not understand how to adjust to that. So when it comes to owning your own business, it's the same thing of going from corporate. As in corporate, people are telling you exactly what to do, how to do it. Like, there's so much more structure there for you, which for some of us is really hard to adapt to, especially depending on who picked the rules and who's enforcing the rules. When you start your own business, you then have the freedom to do whatever you want. Also, you have the freedom to do whatever you want, which can be really overwhelming also because now you're not just in charge of the thing that you're good at, which is why you started the business in the first place.
Patricia Sung [00:18:43]:
You also now have to have bookkeeping and marketing and emails and and and and and then and all of a sudden, you have 47 hats. And some of us are like, cool. Give me 47 hats. I'm gonna be over here flip flapping and you know? And they run with it. And other people are like, woah. Woah. Woah. Wait.
Patricia Sung [00:19:05]:
Wait. You you want me to do, like, math every day? Like, I I picked this job because there was no math. Now you need me to do math or I'm in trouble with the IRS. Like, having that flexibility is wonderful and also, like, almost too many choices. So when we enter entrepreneurship, it's not a, like, get out of, like, oppression free card. That's not what it is. When you're looking at starting your own business, like, I think that'll be, like, one of the things I wish I had known in the beginning is, like, realizing, like, oh my goodness. I'm not the one with so many things I didn't think I was gonna have to learn.
Patricia Sung [00:19:40]:
How can you still support yourself in the the world is your oyster and there is no structure? Creating those things for yourself, asking for help with the things that you don't want to do or are not good at. Like, it's not it's not all roses, but it's not all doo doo either. Like, there's the balance. So for you, it's like, hey. What feels better? In some jobs, ADHD people do like, they're great. Everything's rolling. Like, if you have a boss that understands you and you have the flexibility to wiggle where you need to wiggle, great. And for some people, having the flexibility to build your own thing is what you need.
Patricia Sung [00:20:21]:
So it's it really just depends on the person and your business. And, like, is this really a good fit for you overall? Because, man, when you're in charge of everything, sometimes I'm like, can can someone just tell me what to do? Can some can someone just be in charge for where's the where's the grown up? Where's the grown up? Tell me what to do. So it's you know, the grass is always greener on the other side. But at the same time, like, I wouldn't trade it for the world. Like, I love what I do. I love running my own business. Actually, I have 2 businesses. Like, I love it, but it's taken me time to figure out how to make it fit me and learn how to ask for help, which was really hard as a recovering perfectionist to ask for help.
Jacki Hayes [00:21:04]:
Yeah. It does. It takes a lot of time, and you have to be willing to, like, experiment and figure out what works for you and be okay with that didn't work very well, but that's not any judgment on me, you know, that those type of things. But I think in general, It's just the idea that like everybody, regardless of where you are in the scope of neurodivergent versus typical, and honestly, there is a really a typical. So everybody benefits if you can all work the way that works best for you because some people are night owls and some people are, you know, I'm up at 4 AM, and I'm done with my day at noon. You know, if we could all just be able to do that, it would just be so much better for life. And, honestly, corporate corporate world, hey, you'd have a lot more product productivity too.
Patricia Sung [00:21:55]:
Yeah. And that, like, ability to be flexible is something, yeah, I wish that the whole world could embrace. And I and I understand, like, when it comes to corporate and large when you're trying to move that many people, you have to have structure in place to be able to keep thousands of people moving in the same direction. I get that. But it's like, oh, but how what are we valuing more? Are we valuing the following the rules for the sake of following the rules? Are we valuing well, if our goal here is to be the most productive and to get the most done and to make all the goals, you know, that you might be able to do in a different way if you gave people more flexibility. But, I mean, I digress, folks. Yeah. The the world is not a perfect place.
Patricia Sung [00:22:47]:
I wish it was. Bye.
Jacki Hayes [00:22:50]:
How did you go from corporate to teaching to owning your own business?
Patricia Sung [00:22:56]:
ADHD. You know, I always thought, like, when I was in college, I'd had a business major or Spanish minor, and I always thought that I would be at the top of the corporate ladder. I'm the oldest child. I love bossing people around. I I thought I was gonna be running teams of 1,000. And, when I was running not a team of 1,000, but I had probably 20 some people on my team at, like, 21. I I made it far quickly, and then I realized, like, oh, this isn't really as fulfilling as I thought it was gonna be. And I thought that I thought that was it, and I realized I really wanted to make a difference.
Patricia Sung [00:23:43]:
And that's why I moved into teaching because it felt like, wow. Like, I'm really making a difference here, and I loved teaching. But then once I had my boys, I realized like, oh, wow. This this motherhood deal is legit, man. This is this is hard. And I didn't I could not find much support for having ADHD and being a mom. Back I mean, my oldest is, 9. So granted this is, you know, almost 10 years ago.
Patricia Sung [00:24:12]:
I'm up at 3 AM googling. How do I be a good mom with ADHD? Like, is this even possible? And back then, it was like, I found, like, 3 articles. Like, one was on scary mommy, just this lady venting about how it's hard. Like, there wasn't any, like I'm sure they existed. Like, and now that I'm in, like, the eighties ADHD space, like, I know that there were women out there starting things up. I could not find them on the Google at the time, but, like, I couldn't find it. I couldn't find what I needed. And now I'm like, well, this is perfect.
Patricia Sung [00:24:42]:
I literally took my corporate banking sales background and my teaching and my entrepreneurial spirit. Like, I had my first business when I was 12. I pulled that all together, and now I get to do all of those things in one. And I didn't realize I was doing it along the way, but, like, this is how I can say, like, this is easy for me. I love teaching. I love business. And now I get to take all the all these things that I love and do them all at the same time. Like, I love talking 1 on 1.
Patricia Sung [00:25:19]:
I love deep conversations. Like, if you meet me, I'm like, oh, yeah. How's the weather put? And then I'm like, tell me about your deepest, darkest secrets, thoughts, childhood dramas. Let's discuss. Like, if, like, a big crowd, I'm not your girl. I'm not gonna be the life of the party. But, like, if you need someone to connect with 1 on 1, I'm here for it. And I get to do that with what I'm doing now, and I love it.
Patricia Sung [00:25:42]:
Now are there still things that are hard? Yeah. Like, I mean, right now, I'm trying to figure out, like, SEO on my website, and it's like, well, there's a whole new can of worms. I gotta open up and figure out what the heck's Google Analytics and all this nonsense. But I also love learning. So I get, you know, 2 birds, 1 stone. I get to figure out something helpful for my business. I still get to learn something new. I don't feel like I'm stagnant.
Patricia Sung [00:26:06]:
And I think that metamorphosis of, like, seeing where all the pieces came together has allowed me to try new things. And I really thought something she said earlier of, like, when you're in business, you have to keep trying and then you fail and you being okay with that, like that failure piece. A a lot of us with ADHD really struggle with that because we've been told our whole lives all the things that we're not good at, and how we're too much, too sensitive, too loud to fill in the blank, whatever thing you got as a kid. So we have an aversion to criticism and failure and all that. And it's taken me, I mean, I would say I mean, I've been doing this particular business. Like I said, I have my own business too. Like, this particular one where I'm in front of people a lot, it's taken me almost the full 5 years to be okay knowing that, like, it's okay that I failed because that is how entrepreneurs make progress. Sitting and thinking and planning this thing does not get me anywhere.
Patricia Sung [00:27:02]:
I might feel a little more confident, but I didn't move forward. And that action is what actually tells me whether or not it worked. And a lot of times that action results in failure, which is really hard when you spent your whole life being a perfectionist. Like, hello. I'm oldest child, girl. Like, Enneagram 1. Like, I got all the all the perfectionist things you could throw in. I got them all.
Patricia Sung [00:27:22]:
Okay? And so to be okay with that failure has been really hard. But, also, like, the action is the only thing that tells me whether or not it worked. So, yeah, it's been, like, a solid 5 years of failing over and over again and being like, okay. Alright. Like, I pick myself up, dust off again, try again. But that's probably been, like, one of the hardest lessons is that failure is required in owning your business, and, man, it stinks.
Jacki Hayes [00:27:49]:
It does. One of the ways I've kind of gotten over that is to approach everything with the experiment mindset, and it's all data. So it's not a fail or not fail. It's, my goal is to gather data. I gathered data. It didn't work the way my hypothesis said it was going to. That happens in science. So let's try something else.
Patricia Sung [00:28:10]:
Yeah. And, like, I love the scientist idea. Like, I often tell my clients, like, okay. Imagine you're putting on your lab coat, like, put on your white lab coat. Like, we are in, like, discovery mode here. How do we figure out what works? It's also by finding out what didn't work, and that's okay. We don't have to have all the answers on time 1. I think a lot of times when we try something out, we're like, this needs to be it.
Patricia Sung [00:28:34]:
Like, if I download this Pinterest tour chart for my kids, like, this is the answer to my problems. And then when it doesn't work, we're like, watch this chore charts just don't work for me. It's like, well, maybe that chore chart in particular was built for so and so on the Internet, and it's not built for your family. So how can we modify that to fit you? And, yeah, we might do 3 different chore charts and be like, chore charts? Not it, man. Not it. And that's okay. But we won't know that until we actually made the chore chart. And then our kid was like, I'm doing that.
Patricia Sung [00:29:07]:
And then you have, you know, you go back to the drawing board. But that, yeah, that okay with failure is like, but when you look at it like a scientist, it feels a lot more doable.
Jacki Hayes [00:29:18]:
I think too, like you said earlier, the all or nothing, I'm very much an all or nothing. I don't know if that's my ManiGen or my Enneagram 5 or what it happens to be, my Capricorn. And that's the other thing is to learn to make small incremental changes as opposed to just like I mean, sometimes burning it all down is perfectly fine, and it's necessary. But a lot of times, it's not.
Patricia Sung [00:29:43]:
Especially if it's, like, 2 days before your cycle and you're like, burn it down. I hate my life. It's like, okay. But you can feel like you're gonna burn it down today, but, like, let's take a breath and hold the matches till tomorrow. Yeah. Let's see if we still feel that way tomorrow.
Jacki Hayes [00:29:56]:
Yeah. Don't burn it down immediately. Like, if you have the feeling, it's like, you know, I wanna buy something really big. It goes in the shopping cart for, like, 2 weeks, and then I will decide if I really still want it. Well, the same thing. If I wanna burn my business to the ground today, maybe I should give it a couple of days before I actually do it. So
Patricia Sung [00:30:13]:
Yes. And those but, I mean, the incremental changes are harder. It's easy to say, like, forget it. We're starting over. And, like, when you are somebody who's more of an innovator and that comes easy to you, it feels easy to pick a new idea and run with it because you're good at ideas. You'll you'll have 17 more after this if that one didn't work out. But, like, when we're making those incremental changes, that's actually where we do the most learning. That's where we get the most data.
Patricia Sung [00:30:40]:
But they don't feel cool and, like, they're not snazzy and they're not bedazzled. Those incremental changes are like, oh,
Patricia Sung [00:30:48]:
okay. Well, it's just it's just a smidge. Doesn't feel very exciting.
Patricia Sung [00:30:52]:
But that's actually where we get the most information, which I'm like, like, man, being a grown up's hard, man.
Jacki Hayes [00:31:00]:
Oh, Jesus. Really? That's like you're doing. So let me ask you, what is one piece of advice that you would give yourself on day 1 of your business?
Patricia Sung [00:31:18]:
It would be to put on your failure hat because we're we're gonna mess a lot of things up, and then it doesn't mean like, it has zero on you as a person. That is how you're going to learn is to fail and fail and fail, and you will learn and learn and learn, like, so much so that my word of the year was actually failure, Maybe 3 years ago, 4 years ago, because I was so averse to failure. And I just wouldn't step out. If I thought it was possible that I might not be able to do it, then it might look stupid. And I didn't realize that I was I was limiting myself from trying things before I even stepped out. And I was the one limiting myself. I was the one saying you can't do that. No one's gonna wanna listen.
Patricia Sung [00:32:00]:
Nobody's gonna, you know, all the the negative narrator that shows up in your brain. So that's what I would tell myself on day 1 is get buckle up, princess. We got some work to do. Like, this is gonna be a rough ride. Put on your helmet, the kneepads, the elbow pads, like, you maybe some bubble wrap. I don't know, but, like, buckle up. This is not for the faint of heart. But you but you have to.
Patricia Sung [00:32:25]:
You have to fail in order to learn, and that's okay. It's not a reflection of you. Patricia, where can everybody find you? Podcast name. That's my podcast name. That's my website, motherhoodadhd.com. All my social handles, everything is the same one for simplicity's sake for ADHD.
Jacki Hayes [00:32:47]:
Thanks so much for being here today.
Patricia Sung [00:32:49]:
Thanks so much for having me. This is a fun conversation.
Jacki Hayes [00:32:52]:
Thank you for listening to another episode of Here's What I Learned. You can find the show notes and transcripts at jackiehayes.online/podcast. If you enjoyed this episode, please be sure to leave a review and follow the show. Be sure to find me on Instagram jackiehayes_obm and let me know what you learned from this episode. Catch you next time on Here's What I Learned.
Patricia Sung [00:33:26]:
For more resources, classes, and community, head over to my website motherhoodinadhd.com. motherhoodinadhd.com.