Prioritizing Intimate Moments for ADHD Couples with Dr. Ari Tuckman #244
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***Note that today’s episode is not for little ears, so grab your headphones or listen away from the kids.
Intimacy is more than what happens in the bedroom. When things are not going well in the bedroom, it shows up in everyday life too.
Relationship problems fester when ignored, seeping into the way you and your partner prioritize each other and communicate in your relationship. Throw ADHD in the mix and you’ve got advanced relationship needs, too.
For ADHD Awareness Month, we’re talking to a new ADHD guest expert every week.
Today’s guest is Ari Tuckman, PsyD, a psychologist, author, international presenter and ADHD thought leader. He has been widely quoted in media and has appeared on countless podcasts. He is the conference committee co-chair CHADD. He is the author of “ADHD After Dark: Better Sex Life, Better Relationship”
In this episode, Dr. Tuckman and I discuss frequent struggles in ADHD relationships, including awkward conversations about intimacy, and where you might struggle with communication. We talk about real life solutions and suggestions on how to stay connected and prioritize your relationship.
You’re certainly not alone in these relationship struggles.
Let’s jump into a much needed conversation about how to keep your romantic partnership strong in the trying stages of life and be present in the little moments that matter, so that you can both work toward a lasting and fulfilling relationship for both partners.
Find Dr. Tuckman here:
Website: adultADHDbook.com
You’re invited!
It can feel super intimidating to show up to a party where you don’t know anyone. Well, I don’t want that fear to keep you from finding your people.
I want to make this super low risk for you to come, try it out, and get a sneak peek before you join our ADHD mom community.
You’re invited to the next Successful Mama Meetups Open House!
Join us on Zoom on November 6th to body double for the first 30 minutes, then hangout and meet the other moms in the community for the second half. (Hint hint, we’re pretty amazing IMHO.)
No charge, no pressure. Just come hang out!
Let me know you wanna come right here and I’ll send you the Zoom link.
And since it's on Zoom, everyone can come no matter where you live. Self-diagnosis and ADHD-curious moms welcome.
It’s time to hang out with other moms who get you and make you feel like you’re at home. So come in your comfy clothes and let’s hang out! See you soon!
Dr. Ari Tuckman [00:00:00]:
Think it begins by recognizing that it is a gear shift. Right? And that might be harder for some people than others, and it might be harder for some genders than others. That's fine. So, like, we know this is a thing, so let's figure out how do we do it.
Patricia Sung [00:00:16]:
Are you overwhelmed by motherhood and barely keeping your head above water? Are you confused and frustrated by how all the other moms make it look so easy? You can't figure out how to manage the chaos in your mind, your home, or your family. I get you, mama. Parenting with ADHD is hard. Here is your permission slip to let go of the Pinterest worthy visions of organization and structure fit for everyone else. Let's do life like our brains do life, creatively, lovingly, and with all our might. When we embrace who we are and how our brains work, we can figure out how to live our lives successfully, and in turn, lead our families well. At the end of the day, we just want to be good moms. But, spoiler alert, you are already a great mom.
Patricia Sung [00:01:07]:
ADHD does not mean you're doomed to be a hot mess, mama. You can rewrite your story from shame spiral to success story, and I'll be right here beside you to cheer you on. Welcome to Motherhood in ADHD. Hey there, successful mama. It's your friend, Patricia Sung. It's ADHD Awareness Month and look at me. It only took me 5 years on the podcast to pull together a series for ADHD Awareness Month. Just so you know, it is never too late.
Patricia Sung [00:01:37]:
Every episode this month will be a new guest expert on the field of ADHD. I am so honored that these powerhouses are here to share with you. So let's dive in with today's guest.
Patricia Sung [00:01:48]:
Today's guest is Dr. Ari Tuckman. Dr. Tuckman is a psychologist, author, international presenter, and ADHD thought leader, and he has been widely quoted in media appearing on countless podcasts, and we are so lucky to have him here today. And he's also the conference committee co-chair for CHADD. So he is someone who has really jumped in and is helping the ADHD community, and we really appreciate
Patricia Sung [00:02:10]:
the no typicals who jump in and help us
Patricia Sung [00:02:13]:
get things done and make things happen. He is the author of ADHD after dark, Better Sex Life, Better Relationship. Today's conversation is a good one. It is all about how do we work in our relationship and account for our ADHD, both for ourselves, for our partner, possibly everyone. What are the ways that we can modify what we're doing in order to prioritize our relationships in knowing that there is hope when you are struggling in your relationship, especially when it comes to intimacy? A lot of times these are conversations that are hard to have. And so I wanted to invite Dr. Tuckman here to give you that sense of, like, hey. First of all, this is not only you. You're not the only one who is struggling with these things in your relationship.
Patricia Sung [00:02:55]:
2nd, like, Dr. Tuckman’s wait list is a mile long, which is a bummer for us. But that tells you there's a lot of people that need help in this area. So it's not just you. There are plenty of people in line to be talking about these kind of things. And I want you to know that there is hope for you and your partner to have these really, like, awkward and uncomfortable conversations so that you can work towards bringing your relationship higher up on the priority list.
Patricia Sung [00:03:19]:
We are talking about what are the
Patricia Sung [00:03:20]:
what are the things that we struggle with? What's hard about this? And what do we actually do about that? We're also answering your questions about how do we stay present in the moment when it feels like we're feeling at being a good partner, whether it's in the bedroom or just in life in general. I want you to know that there is hope. So let's dive in and let's dig in to relationships and intimacy with doctor Ari Techman. Now fair warning, mama, some of these topics today are not for little ears. So this is an episode that you will want to pop in those headphones or hip ons and wait till time where you are on your own. Let's welcome Dr. Ari Tuckman to the show. How are you doing this morning?
Dr. Ari Tuckman [00:03:58]:
I am good. It's good to be here.
Patricia Sung [00:03:59]:
Alright. So I am gonna tap right in and ask okay. So I was actually talking to Tamara Rozier, last week. We were doing her interview. And she was like, I don't know how Ari handles all of us ADHDers all the time being a neurotypical person. So, like, I have to ask. I'm like, one, how do you do it? Because Mhmm. You spend a lot of time with us, not just professionally, but you do a lot of volunteer work in the community.
Patricia Sung [00:04:22]:
What what's your secret?
Dr. Ari Tuckman [00:04:24]:
You know, it's sort of a funny thing. So I don't have ADHD, but as I've sort of looked back on my life, right, like, I reconnected with a bunch of friends from high school and, like, 2 of those guys have ADHD, which in hindsight, it's kind of like, duh, obviously. But not that we knew with them because it was, you know, dark ages. And then I think about a couple of my friends from college, and then I think about this friend of mine from grad school, and I'm like, I'll bet you $80,000,000. She has ADHD. Right? And it's just like there's clearly an affinity there. Right? Like, I'm sort of drawn to the energy and I don't know. It's just something.
Dr. Ari Tuckman [00:04:57]:
Right? There's a resonance there. So, so I think in that sense, it's not an accident that I have sort of I was gonna say found myself, but I didn't find it. I put myself there. I had active agency in selecting where to be in the world. So so yeah. It just I don't know. Like, there's a fit there. You know? And I think that I appreciate everything that's great about my friends and colleagues with ADHD, and I think that that makes the difference.
Patricia Sung [00:05:23]:
So how do you balance that? Like, how much you appreciate the good parts about us when, obviously, there are parts that can be quite annoying or frustrating and what have you, especially as we're gonna dive into, like, this whole idea of, like, relationships and partners and how do you work with people with ADHD. How do you find that balance so that it works for you and it's not overwhelming?
Dr. Ari Tuckman [00:05:41]:
First, I mean, you don't have to have ADHD to be annoying to people. We all have things about other people that sort of annoy us and things about us that annoy them. You know? So there's always gonna be that balance. There's always gonna be that give and take. You always need to find ways to negotiate differences and different preferences, and that's not unique to ADHD. I think one thing though that maybe is a bit different or I think the ADHD stuff can be more visible. Right? It can be more obvious. It can be easier to say, well, but, you know, because of that, obviously, I do this thing.
Dr. Ari Tuckman [00:06:14]:
Right? So it's easy to sort of justify your own bad behavior by pointing at your partner's ADHD or your friends or coworkers or whatever. Right? So, like, you know, there is that, but still there's always 2 people involved in the interaction. Both people have an opportunity to make choices that influence what happens next and how both people feel about it.
Patricia Sung [00:06:34]:
And did you come by this wisdom from anywhere in particular?
Dr. Ari Tuckman [00:06:39]:
I definitely had like, I've had this thought before, but, like, couples therapy training has really sort of influenced this thinking or has kind of refined this perspective for me. Because we can all point at what our partner does and say, you know, because of that bad behavior on your part, obviously, I do this thing on my part. But the problem is it's not like their bad behavior is where the story started. I mean, if unless you met them, like, 6 minutes ago, then you could sort of take that position. Right? But, like, once you've been together a while, there's 80 miles of history behind you, and everything gets connected to everything else. But it's really sort of this idea that if you give away all the responsibility, if you put all the blame onto the other person, what you're saying is I'm basically the passive recipient of what you do, so I'm just gonna have to cross my fingers and hope you do something different. You know? Which I don't know. I don't like putting my happiness just sort of out to the universe and hoping for the best.
Dr. Ari Tuckman [00:07:36]:
Right? I'd like to have some influence over what happens next. And, you know, I think whenever I see couples or I present on, you know, couples therapy, particularly when one partner has ADHD, I'm always sort of hammering this idea that the non ADHD partner has a role to play here too, not as a favor to the person with ADHD, although I'm all in favor of being generous, but as as a way to sort of take care of themself. Right? Like, learning about your partner's ADHD helps you be happier in their relationship. It helps you be a better partner to them, but it also helps you get more of what you want rather than being frustrated and resentful and powerless over things that are happening that isn't what you would like to happen.
Patricia Sung [00:08:18]:
Which I think reminds me of like, we have a mutual friend, Liz Lewis, and she talks a lot about, like, it's not just the ADHD. We can't just blame everything on the ADHD. There's a lot of other stuff going on. And I think when we get into a relationship, especially when either both parties have ADHD or one of them does, like, so much blame can get dumped on the ADHD that we often forget, like, well, couples who don't have ADHD on your side still have problems. And Yeah. Things are still gonna happen in life. You know, you're gonna have interesting in laws, and you're gonna have job issues or, you know, job loss. There's going to be struggles with kids.
Patricia Sung [00:08:51]:
Like, there's always going to be life happening. It's not just the ADHD. It yes. It sure is in there.
Dr. Ari Tuckman [00:08:58]:
Yeah.
Patricia Sung [00:08:58]:
But there's always struggles within a relationship and learning how to work together. And so, you know, yes, we're gonna do our darnest to figure out how to make this work, but it's not the only,
Dr. Ari Tuckman [00:09:10]:
And I think bone. No. And you're absolutely right. You know, I think that there's potentially a bit of an intersection here if we talk about ADHD and gender and parenting. Right? So, like, if you're a a woman with ADHD married to a guy with ADHD, which not everybody is, but, you know, with that right? As the person with ADHD, right, that makes for those easy to point at sort of visible obvious things of, like, I wouldn't be so mad if you weren't late all the time or whatever. Right? But also then being a woman, you're more inclined to sort of take it upon yourself, you know, because the way we raise boys and girls, guys are better at being like, well, this is kinda crappy, but it's not my fault. And girls and women are more likely to say, oh, that didn't work out well. Why did I do badly? And then if you've lived with ADHD, probably undiagnosed, probably untreated for most of your life, all the more reason to sort of blame yourself and take it onto yourself.
Dr. Ari Tuckman [00:10:05]:
So it very much sets up a problematic dynamic where the woman with ADHD right? And then, of course, there's that whole saint mother thing of, like, you know, as a mother, you should be forever sacrificing and you should never ask for anything or expect of or, like, that whole nonsense thing. Right? So, like, it's like you really kind of dug deep into a hole here where, you know, it is all about you, and you should feel bad about it, and you should do it different, except you're not getting the support to do it and, you know, blah blah blah. But, also, like, you know, your spouse doesn't love this situation either because it's not working out for what they want either. Right? So it's kind of like nobody really feels good in that situation.
Patricia Sung [00:10:44]:
Yeah. And what I always try to circle back to because, like, even my husband and I have done a lot of marriage counseling as well, and he does not have ADHD. Like, where we always come back, the counselors constantly, like, you guys are on the same team. It's not you versus them. It's not the, like, offensive position. It's how do we come together to deal with this issue. And when we can come back and remind ourselves that we're on the same team, we both want the things to get better. It behooves us both to to find a solution here.
Patricia Sung [00:11:14]:
It makes it a lot easier to move forward because you're both working towards the solution. And, again, you're not feeling singled out or left behind or it's your problem. No. No. This relationship owns to like, we both own it. And without both people working towards it, I mean, we're not we're not gonna get very far. So Yeah.
Dr. Ari Tuckman [00:11:33]:
Yeah. Exactly. Like, you give up half the agency and half the influence if you say this isn't my problem. Go figure it out.
Patricia Sung [00:11:40]:
Yeah. Which, like, I would definitely deal with. Okay. So
Dr. Ari Tuckman [00:11:44]:
Yep.
Patricia Sung [00:11:44]:
Like, where to start? I have so many questions. Okay. I'm gonna circle a little bit around ADHD for, like, one more question here. When we think about how much you have worked with folks in the community of ADHD, What are those things that you find surprising that most people don't know? Like, they don't see those themes in their relationship where you can step back and go, oh, I've worked with so many different couples. I see these things popping up where when we have one partner with ADHD and one without, these sorts of things pop up versus when we have both partners with ADHD. I see these things frequently popping up. What are those things that really surprise you that aren't talked about as much, and yet you're like, this is a thing. This matters.
Dr. Ari Tuckman [00:12:30]:
Mhmm. You know, a big thing that I think comes up is the whole question of how much should your partner be your external executive functions. You know, like, that's a really common topic, and it can sort of go both ways. Right? Sometimes the non ADHD partner wants to be more of the executive functions. You know, do this, do that, don't do this, remember, blah blah blah. Right? And it becomes a bit more kind of micromanage y than the other person wants. Sometimes it sort of goes the other way, which is you should just be able to do this on your own. I'm not gonna get involved, but I am gonna be unhappy when it doesn't work out.
Dr. Ari Tuckman [00:13:09]:
You know? Or the partner with ADHD is sort of pulling and saying, I need more help with this. I need you to help me. And, you know now there's definitely also a gender split on this. Like, these are not equally represented on you know, if we're, again, talking about straight couples, which not everybody is. But if the guy is ADHD, it's more likely that the female partner is gonna sort of step in and try to help out and because that again, that's how we're socialized. Whereas when the woman has ADHD, I think it tends to go more the other way where the guy might be frustrated with the outcomes, but is perhaps less involved in the inputs and the process. So that is a discussion to have. Right? How do we find this balance where both people feel like they're putting in the right amount of effort and both people feel like they're getting out what it is that they're hoping for.
Patricia Sung [00:13:58]:
And what have you seen that helps rebalance those two sides?
Dr. Ari Tuckman [00:14:03]:
I think it begins with really sort of talking about, like, what are we doing here? Right? What do we want? How do we want things to be here? Like, end results. And then it's about what do we need to do to get there? What is possible? What's maybe possible, but not worth it? You know? So kind of where do we begin to make some cuts? Where do we sort of accept some things a bit more as they are? You know, really being intentional about, like, how much we take on. Right? Because it's easy to add stuff, and it's good except for the additional cost of, like, time and effort and energy. And, you know, so I think picking our battles is important and then not getting into this FOMO comparison kind of a thing. And rather for us, for our family at this point in time, what is gonna work best? You know? And then within that, also carving out and holding sacred time as a couple to not just do the business conversations of, like, wait, what's happening with soccer practice and, like, you know, what are we doing this weekend and what are we doing this summer? And, you know, I think the sink is dripping and all that stuff. But also the fun stuff. Right? Like, let's do that part too. So managing life and managing ADHD and managing whatever so that you can still have fun together, meaning you have the time and energy, but also the goodwill that if you wanna have fun, you wanna have it with your spouse and not just with anybody other than your spouse.
Patricia Sung [00:15:29]:
Wait. I mean, obviously, most of the people who are listening are moms with kids who are still high high need. So, you know, yes, we have moms that are listening from their kids are grown all the way to moms who don't who are future moms and don't have kids yet. Mhmm. But a lot of the people listening are gonna have kids probably, like, sub 10. And how do you create that space as a couple knowing that you're in like, this
Patricia Sung [00:15:52]:
is we're in the thick of it.
Patricia Sung [00:15:54]:
Like, my boys are 6 and the same. And it's good. It's definitely on the easier side now that the youngest is 6 and, you know, can actually do things for himself. But how do we create that space to spend time as a couple when you're in this phase of life where it is just nonstop? And if you don't keep an eye on the humans, they don't do well. So they need constant supervision.
Dr. Ari Tuckman [00:16:13]:
Yeah. I know. They need to eat. They need to sleep. They need to survive the day. So, I mean, so some of it is it's just accepting some of the reality of, like, this right now is sort of what it is. You know? It does get easier. You know? And I got I remember when my son was, like, less than 1.
Dr. Ari Tuckman [00:16:30]:
Although, honestly, he sucked at sleeping till he was about 2 and, like, literally just surviving the day. You know? Mhmm. It did get better, obviously. Right? Gradually, it gets better. So some of it is that reminding yourself that this is not what it will forever be. But also really, I don't know, being intentional about what you take on and what you don't. So I think that that some of it, certainly, if I look back, I kinda like, there's so many things we did. I'm like, why were we doing all of these things? Like, all these house projects and all, like, god.
Dr. Ari Tuckman [00:17:01]:
What the hell? You know? So, you know, being a bit smarter about that, having a bit more of the long view of, like, yeah, we'll get there. Right? It's not gonna be done now, but, like, we'll get there. I think using the resources that you do have, which maybe it's family. I mean, I didn't have family, you know, nearby when, you know, my son was small. But, like, friends and, you know, like, using the resources that you do have and just somehow carving out, like, at least even just little bits of time. I mean, it's not gonna be like a week in Paris or anything, but, you know, even just a little bit of time where you can sort of have some fun and enjoy each other, I think, is really important. And it just can't be the last thing to happen, which means it's a thing that never happens.
Patricia Sung [00:17:45]:
Well, I wanna actually wanna circle while you're talking about communication. Well, honestly, like, this is one of the things where my husband and I struggle a lot on because I think this is a frequent pattern of especially for women with ADHDs. We do a lot of thinking in our heads, but we don't actually communicate those things outward, which creates a lot of struggle because my husband's like, well, I don't know what's going on. And in my head, I have already discussed this 16 times. So I think that it's been sorted. So how can we learn how to communicate better when we do so much thinking in our heads and actually be able to get it out into our partner.
Dr. Ari Tuckman [00:18:21]:
I mean, that's definitely a thing. Right? That if we think about it, that somehow that translates into a memory of having talked about it, you know, but those are not the same thing. So, you know, so I I mean, I don't know. Somehow, perhaps, capturing externally this thing. And it might even be text like talk about vacation or whatever. It's just like that's it. And that's like some sort of a hard reminder that, like, we need to talk about this. But I think some of it is and, again, this is hard to come by when life is sort of crazy and busy.
Dr. Ari Tuckman [00:18:57]:
But just having some protected time where the 2 of you are in the same space and hopefully there's not too much else happening, and that thing gives you the moment to sort of reflect and be like, I feel like there's probably some things to talk about. I wonder what have I been, you know, ruminating about recently. And that this can't be in bed the last thing that happens. You know? Like, we used to I mean, we don't do this anymore, but, like, we used to do this thing where we'd get into bed and my wife would be talking to me, and I'm, like, barely keeping my eyes open. Right? Like, my eyelids are fluttering. Right? And I'm dying, and she's really unhappy because it's worthless conversation. So, I mean, some of it was for her to make a point of bringing stuff up earlier and not waiting until the very last thing. And part of mine was just being more available earlier so that, you know, we could have a conversation at, like, 8:30 and not, like, 10:30.
Dr. Ari Tuckman [00:19:51]:
You know? But even 10, sometimes even just that little bit of difference makes a big difference.
Patricia Sung [00:19:57]:
So finding that place, like, within your family runnings, every obviously, every family is different, but making that available. Because, yeah, I agree. Those 10:30 conversations, they never go well.
Dr. Ari Tuckman [00:20:07]:
No. No. They don't. Right? Like, we don't have the energy for it. We don't remember it well. We don't really wanna get into it. And the last thing you wanna do is have a big fight, like, right before it's time to go to bed because then you don't sleep well and you're more tired tomorrow. So there's that.
Dr. Ari Tuckman [00:20:21]:
Right? Like, prioritizing some earlier time, putting in the effort. And I know it's hard because you feel like I don't have any effort to spare. Right? Like, all my effort is already accounted for and then some. But, you know, making a point, which again comes back to to the extent that you cannot taking so much on so that, you know, you do have a little more space. And I get it. Like, that's not always possible. Right? Sometimes it just, like, it is what it is. But if you can carve out a little bit of space, I think that that's important.
Dr. Ari Tuckman [00:20:51]:
I think all set is sort of, like, use the time that you have, you know, and to not slide into, like, oh, I'm gonna load the dishwasher or I'm gonna check my email or so, like, that idea, your priorities are not what you say, they're what you do. Right? So if it's like, honey, you are the most important thing in my life, which is why I give you the least amount of time when I have no energy and attention. You're so important to me. You get those last 4 minutes right before I pass out. That's how important you are to me.
Patricia Sung [00:21:21]:
Mhmm. Yeah. We, we've definitely had to make a change. We usually divide and conquer when my husband's around. He travels a lot for work. When he's here, like, well, I take one kid. He's got the other. We get him in bed.
Patricia Sung [00:21:31]:
Yep. And then it's so easy to just, like, it's over. Like, we made it through bedtime. And both people just kinda, like, retreat to their corners of, like, now I must recuperate. And that modification of, like first, we check-in together and be like, is there anything we have to deal with we need to discuss? Like, just having that touch point has helped a lot. And so then if he still really wants to watch, you know, basketball or whatever, like, football, whatever the whatever the sports are on, and I'm like, I I still gotta go clean up and, you know, get the kitchen in order for tomorrow. Like, either way, we can still go back and do the things that we would have done anyway, but having that touch point of, like, do we need to discuss anything? Mhmm. Say anything going on has been a really good, change in the pattern to allow us that moment of connected.
Patricia Sung [00:22:18]:
Like, do we do it every day? No. No. We don't. But more often than not, having that touch point in has helped. There's any way that you can talk about it earlier in the day too, like, if I can catch him at, you know, his lunchtime or something, that makes it easier to it's like, yes. Most of the time when your partner's working, like, at lunch, they don't wanna talk about things either. They're they want that break. But, again, like you said, it's if we're saying that this is important, is that a sacrifice we're willing to make and give up Yeah.
Patricia Sung [00:22:44]:
10 minutes of your lunch break in order to make sure that everybody knows what's going on.
Dr. Ari Tuckman [00:22:48]:
Yeah. Exactly. And it's sort of I mean, I'm not gonna say this part is easy, and I obviously, I get it that you need to sort of track time and whatever with what I'm about to say, and that's harder for some people than others. But it's also a thing of, you know, sometimes sort of being intentional about kind of using some time well. So, you know, like, talking about bedtimes. Like, I mean, I know it. That it's easy when we're sort of a bit tired to be like, you know, whatever, we'll sort of get there and, you know, things sort of drag on and a few other things happen and, you know, and then lo and behold, 8:30 bedtime, it's now like 10 of 9 before you're done. Whereas being a bit more like, no.
Dr. Ari Tuckman [00:23:31]:
We're on a mission. Right? Like, we're doing this. Right? We're getting this kid down. Right? And really being intentional about when you start the routine and sort of pushing through and like, nope. We're not petting the dog. Nope. Leave the dog alone. Here we go.
Dr. Ari Tuckman [00:23:43]:
Where's your toothbrush? This is what right. So kind of shepherding it along a bit more so that there is a little bit more time. And it again, it doesn't have to be hours upon hours. But if you think about it where maybe you only get 10 or 20 minutes in the evening, if you can add 10 minutes to it, you've now doubled the amount of time you guys have. Right? Like, sometimes it's just that little bit that makes the big difference. So to say we're gonna have 2 hours to talk might be completely impossible. But 10 or 20 minutes more, like, that feels I feel like somewhere in the day, I can scrape out another 10 or 20 minutes. Okay.
Dr. Ari Tuckman [00:24:22]:
Yeah. Let's let's make that happen.
Patricia Sung [00:24:24]:
So on the same topic of, like, when you're wrapping up bedtime and you're like, can we get another, like, 10 minutes in? In the same time tends to be when couples are more intimate. And this is a huge struggle for a lot of folks with ADHD. We'll see how how far we dive in here. But on that same note of, like, one of the hardest things for moms, especially when you've got kids around, is then being intimate after I have run all day long.
Dr. Ari Tuckman [00:24:50]:
Yeah. Yeah.
Patricia Sung [00:24:51]:
And now I have to, like, switch gears into a different mode. What can we do to shift those gears so that we can get out of overwhelmed mom mode, doing all the things, and into that space of, like, now I'm focusing on me and my partner in this relationship.
Dr. Ari Tuckman [00:25:08]:
I think it begins by recognizing that it is a a gear shift. Right? And that might be harder for some people than others, and it might be harder for some genders than others. That's fine. So, like, we know this is a thing, so let's figure out how do we do it. Right? And that some of it, I think, is on you to sort of be intentional and say, like, this is also important. Like, right in this moment, now that I've gotten the kids to bed and cleaned up their, you know, crap in the living room and, you know, made mac and cheese for tomorrow or whatever it is that we do. Now that that is done, this next thing is also important. It's important to me.
Dr. Ari Tuckman [00:25:45]:
It's important to my partner. It's important to the relationship. I need to sort of begin to get myself into the mood. So it's not a thing of you get me in the mood. I get myself in the mood by being receptive, by intentionally sort of moving my thoughts and feelings in that direction. So some of it is that. But I think also to have some conversation about with your partner, like, what can they do that will facilitate this happening. Right? So as in, like, if you could go and throw everything in the dishwasher, like, clean up the kitchen and get everything into it, that gets me one step closer to being able to carve out the time and whatever.
Dr. Ari Tuckman [00:26:23]:
Or if instead of going and checking your email and taking 15 minutes doing that, if instead you could do this other thing. Right? And to kind of talk about how do we sort of facilitate this, how do we sort of get ourselves into that better place. And, you know, hopefully, mostly it works out okay. Sometimes it won't. Fine. But, also, if this is only once in a blue moon that it happens, it's a lot harder to be like, that's fine. We'll try next time. You know? So having it happen something happens often enough.
Dr. Ari Tuckman [00:26:54]:
Having alternatives. Right? So it may be some nights, it is the full production, and maybe some nights, it's it's a lot less. What else can we do instead? Because feeling like you have to do something doesn't make it fun and sexy. Right? And that that kind of, like, you know, pressure can be a real, desire killer for next time. So what can we do to have both partners be happy to be there? I'm all in favor of generosity. Right? We should be generous to each other, but it has to be freely given generosity as in, like, I feel good in giving it, and I feel good about you afterwards. You know? So, like, let's talk about what that is and let's talk about what gets in the way of that. You know? So there's that part of it too.
Dr. Ari Tuckman [00:27:35]:
But I think it's just sort of a thing. And I think, again, especially as a mom, especially as a woman, especially as someone with ADHD, it's really easy to get into this. Like, I can't ask for what I want or, like, I have to do all these other things before I can take for myself. And, like, that shouldn't be true. You know? Like, you should be able to have that time just because you can. Like, because you deserve it just because you do.
Patricia Sung [00:27:58]:
My other, like, 3 questions that popped up. I'm like, oh, where do I go first? I know.
Patricia Sung [00:28:05]:
Have you ever been invited
Patricia Sung [00:28:06]:
to a party and you realize, like, you weren't gonna know many people there? And so then you, like, dread it all
Patricia Sung [00:28:12]:
the way going up to the event or you talk yourself out of it so you don't go. Because it's scary to put yourself
Patricia Sung [00:28:18]:
out there in a situation that, like,
Patricia Sung [00:28:20]:
what if I don't like them? What if they don't like me? And it feels stressful. Well, I don't want you to feel that way about hanging out in this community, mama. So I am hosting an open house, and I want you to come and meet all the mamas so that you know what kind of people we are. PS, we're great. And that you feel comfortable joining in this community. Because if you are thinking about joining successful mama meet ups or thinking about joining the retreat, I want you to know that these are your people, and what better way to do that than to actually meet the people. So come join us at our open house. We are hosting an open house in Successful Mama Meetups on November 6th, and come meet the moms, hang out, See what it's like.
Patricia Sung [00:29:05]:
You'll get the feel for, like, who are these people? What's the vibe? Do I wanna hang out with them? Yes. You do. It's gonna be so fun. So come hang out with us. So it's totally no charge, free 99. Come hang out at Successful Mama Meetups on November 6th. Our meetings are on Wednesdays. They're at 12:30 EST.
Patricia Sung [00:29:25]:
Go over to my website at patriciasung.com/openhouse. It's all one word, o p e n h o u s e, and sign up for the link so that you get the Zoom link. This is all virtual, so anybody can come anywhere in the world. See what time it is on your time zone, and come join us for the first 30 minutes. We hang out and get stuff done. So I have help there for, like, how to plan your week, or if you just like, I just need to get some stuff done and the body doubling helps, do that. Like, there's no wrong way to show up and do stuff at Successful Mama Meetups. Did you get something done? Great.
Patricia Sung [00:30:00]:
That's what we're here for. Okay? So that's the first 30 minutes, and then the second 30 minutes is social time where we hang out and we make it fun. You actually want to show up to the body doubling because you get to hang out with your friends and meet people who understand how your brain works, and you feel at home. So come join us November 6. Sign up at patriciasung.com/openhouse, and I can't wait to see your face. And if you are listening to this after November 6, still go over to that link and see when the next one is. I think I'm gonna do this again. I'll see you then.
Patricia Sung [00:30:32]:
Okay. Onto the episode.
Patricia Sung [00:30:35]:
A lot of times, there's advice around well, if you want to be intimate later in that evening, you should do something earlier to communicate that so that both parties will know. And then, like you said, like, let's move this bedtime along. We have somewhere to be. But a lot of times when you have ADHD, like, that was not on my mind 2 hours ago. 2 hours ago, I was arguing about, this science project. So for those of us who have ADHD, and and 2 hours ago, that was not on my radar. What are some
Dr. Ari Tuckman [00:31:00]:
of the
Patricia Sung [00:31:01]:
things that we can do to make sure that we're communicating that this is where we would like to head this evening so that both parties can then
Dr. Ari Tuckman [00:31:08]:
Mhmm.
Patricia Sung [00:31:08]:
Head in that direction?
Dr. Ari Tuckman [00:31:10]:
Yeah. So my first obvious advice that may not be that helpful is, you know, when you do have the thought, then, you know, send a quick text or whatever. Right? But like you said, sometimes you won't. Right? It's just the day is busy and whatever. So there is something to this idea, and a lot of people sort of, you know, throw up in their mouth a little bit at the thought of it. But, like, you know, scheduling sex or at least I'm gonna take a line from Ian Kerner where he calls them windows of willingness. Right? As in, like, Thursday nights, I'm willing to see where things go. I'm willing to be convinced.
Dr. Ari Tuckman [00:31:44]:
You know? So it's not a blood oath. Right? You're not, like, committed whether you want to or not. But it's sort of saying, this is a thing that's important. We're gonna do our best that this is a time when something happens. And, again, maybe it doesn't. Maybe this is not the night. But, generally, I'm gonna show up with some good intent, and I'm gonna put in some effort to be sort of interested and to be available and to be receptive. So I think knowing, you know, here we are Thursday afternoon.
Dr. Ari Tuckman [00:32:16]:
This is you know, like, it can then sort of begin to get us in the moods or begin to sort of think in that direction, begin to think about what do I need to do to make sure that, like, when we do get there that, you know, we're in the right frame of mind and that our lives are are in the right situation, that this is something we can both feel good about.
Patricia Sung [00:32:34]:
And then how do we have those uncomfortable conversations? I think there's a lot of people who like, as a general rule, but for sure for women, like, when it feels really awkward and uncomfortable to have these conversations with your partner in order to know that this is happening, like, where do we start even on, like, step 1 to say, like, hey. I wanna have a conversation about this. To even begin with, maybe we should have a window of willingness on Thursdays. Like, how do we even take step 1 to be like, let's talk about this really uncomfortable thing.
Dr. Ari Tuckman [00:33:03]:
Yeah. I think you start out by saying, this feels really uncomfortable, and, also, I'm a little bit worried it's not gonna go well. Just call it. Right? Like, not news. I don't think your spouse is gonna fall out of their chair when you say that. But I think to sort of acknowledge it and to say, I know that this is important. I know this would be good for us, or I know this is important to you and I haven't been as available, or this is important to me and you haven't been as available. I know this is a thing that we've struggled over.
Dr. Ari Tuckman [00:33:32]:
You know? So kind of some acknowledgment. And to really sort of make a point of saying, I want us to have a good conversation. I wanna be able to sort of express my position of how I feel about this. I wanna hear what your position is. And especially in the beginning, it's a lot more about questions than statements. You know? So, like, don't tell the other person what to do. Don't get to the solutions too quick, but, like, let's try to understand it. Why is this important to you? What are your concerns? What gets in the way for you? What gets in the way for me? And to really try to understand what the situation is and to find to call back to, you know, what you said before.
Dr. Ari Tuckman [00:34:09]:
Like, we're on the same team here. We both want this to work out. How do we sort of find a way to make it happen? How do we negotiate our differences? Again, it's about trying to understand each other and to be understood more than it is to sort of, like, make commandments or say this is what needs to happen.
Patricia Sung [00:34:26]:
Knowing that most of these situations that we're talking about here, at least one person has ADHD in the mix.
Dr. Ari Tuckman [00:34:31]:
Mhmm.
Patricia Sung [00:34:32]:
What are some intros or other, like, signals that you've seen work for couples to say, like, this is the night I wanna meet you in bed? What are the ways that we can that either partner can initiate and that it would tend to be better received by someone with ADG knowing that we do tend to get, you know, sensitive about things, which is okay. But how can our partner or us relating to the partner reach out and, like, say, like, this is the day. What do we do? What are some of those things that you've seen that work that don't feel super uncomfortable maybe just lately less uncomfortable?
Dr. Ari Tuckman [00:35:06]:
Yeah. Yeah. Right. They might be a little uncomfortable, and that might be okay. So I guess the first thing I'll do is say 2 things that don't work. One of them is to sort of vaguely sort of say something and your partner misses it. Right? Like, don't be too vague or subtle and expect your partner to mind read. Right? So sometimes you just need to sort of say it so they know that you said it.
Dr. Ari Tuckman [00:35:29]:
That's one thing. Another thing not to do is to make it sort of like a demand or a command. Right? Like, you're not ordering it on Amazon, you know, one click. You know? But rather to say, I would be interested. Now maybe the recipient is interested or maybe they will be interested, but also I am interested does not obligate you to fulfill my interests. You know? It's just stating I am interested. You know? So that's part of it is to be able to say no. Right? That both people are able to say thanks, but no thanks.
Dr. Ari Tuckman [00:36:03]:
Or maybe not that, but what about this? So but to sort of be clear about what's being communicated and then to sort of work together to figure out how to get there.
Patricia Sung [00:36:14]:
Another frequent struggle for folks with ADHD tends to be idea of being, like, overstimulated and that sometimes the physical touch is too much, and then it creates this hurt feelings by the other side. What are some things you've seen that help in overcoming the overstimulation that sends things in the wrong direction?
Dr. Ari Tuckman [00:36:32]:
You know, the first thing is to have some conversations about this, but not in bed and when you have your clothes on. Right? Like, not in the middle of the action is not the time to be having this conversation. So, you know, to have some conversation about it, to say, for me, this is what this is like, To make it clear that it's nothing personal, and it's no sort of comment on your partner's moves or their attractiveness or whatever or your feelings for them. It's just sort of like, I don't know. This is just my nervous system. What are you gonna do? Right? So nobody gets their feelings hurt, number 1. But also to have a bit of a game plan of like, look. If I'm feeling overstimulated, here's what I'm gonna do.
Dr. Ari Tuckman [00:37:15]:
Here's what I'm asking of you. Or if you're not sure to then ask. Right? Like, let's use our words in the heat of the moment. And, you know, if we sort of shift gears, fine, whatever, which is really kind of exactly the same thing if something feels painful or uncomfortable or if a guy starts losing his erection or like, number one rule, don't freak out. You know? Like, just move on. Right? Like, plan b. Okay. Shifting gears.
Dr. Ari Tuckman [00:37:41]:
What what do we got? What are we doing here? Right? Because it's the freaking out that's the problem. It's not being overstimulated or this doesn't feel good. Or I know it felt good 2 seconds ago, but it doesn't now. Or yesterday it did, but now it doesn't. Or, like, just talk. Right? Talk about it. Keep the long game in mind, which is we want to enjoy this experience, whatever it is that that is, to take a line from Emily Nagoski, who's written a couple awesome books on sex, especially sex in women. You know, pleasure is the measure.
Dr. Ari Tuckman [00:38:11]:
Right? Like, are you enjoying what you're doing? Is it an enjoyable experience you had together? Great. Now unless you're actually trying to get pregnant again, right, like, a sexual experience could look lots of ways. Now if you're trying to get pregnant, it's gotta end in in
Patricia Sung [00:38:25]:
Narrows. Narrows. Done.
Dr. Ari Tuckman [00:38:26]:
Yeah. Yeah. One specific thing needs to happen. But otherwise, right, like, it shouldn't be sort of, like, written in stone. Right? Like, make the experience into what you want it to be, even if it turns out to be a bit different than the experience you thought you were gonna have going into it. Can you
Patricia Sung [00:38:42]:
talk to me more about that difference in expectation versus reality? And how do we lean into that?
Dr. Ari Tuckman [00:38:48]:
I think it's about again, it's it's, like, really sort of being flexible about it and to have this idea that there's no one right way. Meaning, 2 people don't have to have the same desires in that moment. But also even within yourself, you don't have to have the same desires and that you can be flexible and you can shift. And it is about the pleasure. Right? It's about, am I enjoying what we're doing right now? Does this feel good? And to take whatever kind of performance pressure off of it, because it's the pressure that's the problem. Right? And the expectations then is what sets the pressure, whether it's pressure for yourself, pressure for your partner, pressure for how, you know, body parts are supposed to function. And some nights, you might be full of vigor and up for anything. And other nights, it's been a hell of a day, and we're gonna do something smaller, but it's still gonna be fine.
Dr. Ari Tuckman [00:39:42]:
Right? And to enjoy it. And maybe, again, a bit of that long view of, like, right now, we got young kids who are sucking us dry. But, you know, in time, we'll have a bit more space for us. So, like, this is not what it will be forever. Yeah.
Patricia Sung [00:39:56]:
And then I think that, like, now, not now thinking that comes into ADHD, like, when it's hard right now, we feel like it's gonna be hard forever. Yeah. And having kids in your house is a season. It's a long season, but it's a season.
Dr. Ari Tuckman [00:40:08]:
Yeah.
Patricia Sung [00:40:08]:
And you won't be sleep deprived forever, and you won't have people vomiting on you forever. And soon enough, your teens will be out later than you wanna stay up, and things will shift. But it's hard to see that in the moment. And, also, the idea of, like, what's the goal here for both people to have an enjoyable time is a very different goal than I think usually what we go into the evening looking at. Like, most people when this is the night we're having sex, like, that's a whole different goal than can we both have an enjoyable time. Yeah. And another question we had from, the community from Sarah is she wanted to get some insight on a lot of us with ADHD have, like, trouble staying present in the moment and getting, like, lost in the thoughts while being intimate. And kinda like, one, why is this so hard? But then what do we do about it? So that we can be present in that time when you look at we actually got here, and now I'm worried about I forgot that permission slip that's due tomorrow.
Patricia Sung [00:41:04]:
Like, what Right.
Patricia Sung [00:41:05]:
Why is
Patricia Sung [00:41:05]:
this so hard, and what do we do about it?
Dr. Ari Tuckman [00:41:07]:
Yeah. Yeah. And that I mean, that's definitely a thing that can happen. And not just the people with ADHD, you know, but maybe a bit more so, maybe also more women than men with ADHD. And I have some data that backs that up, so I'm not just making things up here. So my thoughts are, on the one hand and this is easy to say, but try to create a bit more sort of order in your life and the systems that are gonna make for less forgotten permission slips and whatever. Right? I mean, easy to say. Some of it is about kind of taking that time to sort of beforehand or in the early part of, like, okay.
Dr. Ari Tuckman [00:41:41]:
Here we are now to sort of begin to mentally transition into this kind of different mindset. But it may also just be a thing where you kind of talk to your partner about, like, look. If there's something, like, bugging me that I just need to say it because I know you're gonna remember it, and then we'll move on. Or if I say it, I'll remember it. So, you know, like, in the middle of things, say, like, damn it. I think I didn't fill out a permission slip. Right? And then for your partner around and being like, why are you talking about that? Right? Now we're fighting and not, like, moving on. To just be like, okay.
Dr. Ari Tuckman [00:42:13]:
Got it. By the way, don't care. Not the thing I'm worried about right now. But okay, honey. Right? And we're back. And to just sort of recognize, like, this is a thing that's gonna happen. It's totally fine. It's not a big deal.
Dr. Ari Tuckman [00:42:25]:
It's only a problem if you make it a problem by, again, freaking out about it. And when you notice yourself being distracted, just like bring it on back, right, in that sort of mindful sort of a way. Just bring yourself back. Come back to the present. Come back to your body. Come back to what is feeling good in this moment. Come back to those sort of sexy thoughts of what do I wanna do next, you know, like, to come back into the present moment and not be too up in your head.
Patricia Sung [00:42:53]:
And I think a lot of us have patterns of the things that distract us during those times. So if we can look at what our patterns are, like, if it is this, like, to do list things, like, the permission slip, like, oh, I forgot to get, you know, lunch meat at the grocery store. Like, if it's these kind of things, like, okay. Well, how do we, earlier in the day, create space for that? That's one thing I think is underrated for those of us with ADHD is, like, creating that white space for us. Our brains to kinda, like, mill around. It's like when you're in the intimate moment, your brain's not doing anything else. So all of a sudden, there's the white space of, like, your brain's like, oh, wait. You know what? All day you've been busy, and I didn't have a chance to let you know that there's no more turkey in the refrigerator.
Patricia Sung [00:43:32]:
Like, creating that space for those things earlier can alleviate those things. So, like, if that's the frequent pattern is the to do list keeps popping up. It's like, well, okay. Let's cool. Let's put this to do list earlier. But also when your partner knows, like, this is eating at me, most partners are gonna be like, I would rather you just say I forgot to fill out the permission slip, and then we keep going rather than you be stuck in your head about the permission slip, and then you're not here in the moment with me. When they know that that's the point, I mean, most partners would be like, okay. Cool.
Patricia Sung [00:44:01]:
Don't care right now. Moving along. There's no judgment and shame in it because you've already clarified ahead of time. They're like, it's not a reflection on what's going on in the moment. It's just my brain latched onto something and I need to unlatch it. And if this is how I unlatch it so that I can be present, lovely. I think sometimes those thoughts can go instead of it being like, oh, the things I forgot to do. It's like the things that are distracting you in the moment.
Patricia Sung [00:44:25]:
Like, noticing that, like, well, now the fan is blowing too much or, like, I feel like I'm too sweaty or, like, those kind of things come in. Do you have any recommendations there of, like, it's not as simple as, oh, right. Permission slip later. Got it. In the moment, those things are really grating on you. How do we address those without irritating your partner or hurting their feelings?
Dr. Ari Tuckman [00:44:44]:
Yeah. So, I mean, in terms of the to do list stuff, one thought is if you know this is a thing that happens for you, I don't know, just, like, take a second before, you know, you sort of get into bed or whatever and just sort of, like, reflect. Right? Again, that white space like you said and just brain dump. You know, scribble out, like, permission slip, question mark, turkey, you know, this, that. Just, like, dump it out of your head so there's nothing left rattling around later or there's less, right, that's gonna come up. I think some of it also is in you know, we sort of touched on this before, but it's not, like, deserving this. Right? Do I deserve I mean, okay. There's always more stuff to do, and none of us think we're doing good enough jobs as a parent anyway because it's, you know, impossible standards.
Dr. Ari Tuckman [00:45:28]:
But, like, do I deserve to have this time for me, you know, to enjoy this, to take a bit, to receive. And, like, there's that part also, you know, and all these stupid nagging to do list items sort of run counter to that. Right? Because it's all about what are you doing for others. So there's that part. You know, there are certain things, you know, like you said, the fan is over there. Right? That sort of it it's probably not emotionally loaded about, like, the fan, you know, whatever. But it's just annoying and it's weird and it's just there. Right? So, like, I think for that, you just try to, like, in that mindful way, just let that thought go and instead bring yourself back to the present.
Dr. Ari Tuckman [00:46:11]:
I think the whole, like, am I too sweaty thing. Right? Now we're getting back into that whole, like, am I good or not? Is this okay? Does my partner you know, how does he feel or she feel or right? Like, all that self doubt crap. You know? Like, again, that's a thing. Like, let that let it go. You know? Like, you deserve to be there. You're fine. I promise you. Your partner is just psyched for the opportunity.
Dr. Ari Tuckman [00:46:34]:
Right? Like, you might be worried about being sweaty. I don't think they're worried about you being sweaty. So, like, come back to the moment and let yourself enjoy it.
Patricia Sung [00:46:43]:
Yeah. The thing that that's worth of the price of admission right there is knowing, like, you deserve this time and that it is okay if you forget the permission slip because you were here with your partner, and this connection point was more important than that Because you deserve this space and time to just be you and not worry about all the responsibilities that are weighing on you as a parent and a human that's, you know, in the world today. Like, it is okay for you to take that space and just be present and focus on you as a as a person instead of all the other things. So many times we, we do. We get in our heads about, you know, what did do I look too chubby this direction, or do, you know, did it oh, that was a weird noise. Like, all those things that come in, and it's like you said, most people in the moment, sure. We might notice it, but, like, priority wise, not not on the list right now. Like, that's not where Yeah.
Patricia Sung [00:47:35]:
Most people are focused. And if they are, like, maybe this is like, they're just like you of, oh, right. Like, all of a sudden, I'm worried about this thing that doesn't really matter in the moment comparatively, and that's okay. We can still have a really great time with our partner even though there was a weird noise, even though I felt too sweaty, even though I felt like a little too jiggly here. Like, that doesn't negate from the connection time that you have together and that you are worthy of spending that, whether it's 10 minutes or 2 hours together and focusing on what you 2 need as grown ups.
Dr. Ari Tuckman [00:48:07]:
Yeah. Yeah. Because, you know, it's about surviving not just the day, but the decades. You know? Mhmm. Right? If you give too much too soon, then you sort of burn out, and then you're not besides not being good for yourself, you're not good for your kids. But but, again, you deserve to be good to yourself. Just, like, put a period on that. We don't have to put the second part of being better for your kids later.
Dr. Ari Tuckman [00:48:28]:
So Yeah.
Patricia Sung [00:48:29]:
Yeah. You deserve it just because you are. Mhmm. And, I think that's like, one of the hardest parts of being a parent is that you get lost in all of the responsibilities and setting yourself aside in order to make these children wonderful people too. But that is so valuable for our kids to see that their parents prioritize themselves because we want our kids to grow up as people who also take care of themselves. We want our kids to grow up and be in the kind of relationship that, yes, maybe we only, you know, had sex for 10 minutes because we were running on empty because you have twins and what but it doesn't matter. It's the fact that you guys still make time for that. That's the kind of setup that we wanna have for our kids to see.
Patricia Sung [00:49:10]:
This is the kind of relationship that our family upholds is like we we can make it work in between the spaghettios. And if that means that the house is a little messier, but you had a good time with your partner, get
Patricia Sung [00:49:20]:
you know what?
Patricia Sung [00:49:20]:
I we we can vacuum tomorrow.
Dr. Ari Tuckman [00:49:22]:
Yeah. Exactly.
Patricia Sung [00:49:23]:
And again, it's easy to say when, you know, hindsight 2020. And it's easy to say, oh, just do it tomorrow. There's always more things to do tomorrow. But, you know, again, with ADHD, when we struggle with the prioritizing is that when we get sucked into, like, but tonight I have to get the backpacks ready and get the lunches and I have to call my mom and all you know, when we get into that, like, we'll have to do all these other things. Sometimes we lose sight of, like, how important our relationship is. And you know what? Your mom is gonna love you tomorrow the same that she did today. Your partner, like, this is a the marathon. This is the decades that we're pouring in.
Patricia Sung [00:49:57]:
And it does take a lot of effort and teamwork together to be able to still be on the same page when your kids leave the house. Yeah. So that it is worthy.
Dr. Ari Tuckman [00:50:07]:
And I think there's also something that we said for hard deadlines. Right? Like, soft deadlines lead to a lot of creep, whether it's, you know, bedtime or or anything else. But, you know so if you have a bit of a hard bedtime, which is we get like, I need to be in bed, lights out by 10. Like, that is a thing. There's no negotiation. Right? That makes it easier than to not procrastinate. So I would say like, oh, I've I'll do it later tonight. Right? And things slide and slide and slide, and then you're getting into bed at midnight.
Dr. Ari Tuckman [00:50:35]:
But also saying, like, we together are getting into bed at 9 because we were gonna spend some time and we're gonna fool around and we're gonna talk and we're gonna whatever. Right? Or we're just gonna watch TV together, even just that. But to say, like, 9 o'clock hard stop. Right? And that's because if you know 9 is a hard stop, it means hopefully some other things happen at 8 and 7 and even at 1 or 2. Right? That it hopefully it can sort of push it into really, like, at 1 o'clock or even 10 AM or 9 AM to hold in mind, and they're really sort of feel what 9 o'clock feels like at 9 PM. Right? They're like, how do I feel when I'm just, like, throwing a couple last things into the dishwasher? I'm like, alright. I'm here. Versus how do I feel that awful pull of like, I know I said that we would spend time together, but God, I have so much to do.
Dr. Ari Tuckman [00:51:27]:
I'm so stressed out about this. I'm not gonna be able to enjoy it if I say give me 5 more minutes and then I know it's not gonna be 5. And then, you know, my partner's gonna be pissed about it. And then, like you know? So, like, compare and contrast, you know, and to really feel that future and that it's not this vague abstract of, like, well, whatever happens at 9, who cares? It's like, no. Like, what happens at 9 AM absolutely affects what happens at 9 PM. So, like, now is the time to get some stuff done and to really sort of hold that in a good way so that you can then have that good stuff at the end.
Patricia Sung [00:52:00]:
Yeah. And that's it. We'd, talk a lot about organizing our day in my community. Like, we meet on Wednesdays and, like, get our weeks together. And I'm like, oh, I probably need to mention this one in there. Like, when we are looking ahead at our week, it's not just doctor's appointment and all that. Like, these
Patricia Sung [00:52:15]:
are the important things too of
Patricia Sung [00:52:16]:
like, if you wanna have intimate time with your partner, where is that gonna fit into this? And like you said, like, when you're just going anybody, let alone with ADHD, when you're just go go going all day long, and you're not anywhere near thinking about intimate time at 9:30 PM, you know, at 1 o'clock when you're rocking and rolling, like, it's not a priority and it's not gonna happen. So, like, it is a lot of this forethought, which is not our strong suit. But knowing that it is important to us, that's how we can start to make these changes is that you don't have to make all the changes today. It doesn't have to be like, well, here we are. Put it on the calendar. Like, this is the day things are changed, and it's all better from here. It's that constant moving towards it with your partner of we're shifting the way we talk about things. When we talk about things, we're having these awkward conversations to be able to say this is important to me.
Patricia Sung [00:53:01]:
I think it's also important to you. How do we come together and make space for this thing that we both want to happen, but, like, when it's on the fly, it's not happening. So how do we figure out how to make it happen? That forethought allows us to bring space for the it's not just about meal planning. It's also about making clarity with your partner.
Dr. Ari Tuckman [00:53:18]:
Yeah. Absolutely.
Patricia Sung [00:53:20]:
Okay. Well, I still could ask you so many more questions, but I'm gonna ring it in. So before we do our landing on questions, how can folks find you? Like, so, I guess, tell us, like, who are the people that you would be able to help? Who should be calling you for assistance? And then how do they find you, you know, send her doctor Chuckman. What do we do?
Dr. Ari Tuckman [00:53:38]:
Yeah. So, unfortunately, my wait list is already too long, which I feel terrible turning people away. But best place to find information about my books and, you know, some recordings I've done and other things is adult adhdbook.com. And if you go to the speaking page, I actually recently did this, sort of 3 hour collection of a bunch of, like, 5 to 10 minute videos through this continuing ad company called PESI, but it's a sort of parenting kids with ADHD. So that's available all sorts of, like, you know, I don't know, strategies and systems and stuff like that. So I've got that there. I've also got a productivity course for adults coming out pretty soon here. So that's also on the speaking page adultadhdbook.com/.
Dr. Ari Tuckman [00:54:20]:
So that's the best place to find my stuff.
Patricia Sung [00:54:23]:
Awesome. Okay. Well, so time for the lightning round. You don't have to explain anything. You're just gonna fill in the blank. Alright. Number 1. The best thing that I've read or listened to recently is?
Dr. Ari Tuckman [00:54:32]:
I read 400 and something proposals for the big ADHD conference, and there was so much good stuff in there. So, hopefully, that's a good enough answer, but the I think it's been a really great conference in November, so I'm really looking forward to hearing some folks.
Patricia Sung [00:54:47]:
Awesome. I'll say I read quite a few of those as well, and it was, there was the gamut of Yes. Sometimes I was like, this I'm gonna be honest. Some of them were not good. And Yep. Some of them were such awesome takes of like, wow. I never would have even I never even heard about this, never even crossed my mind. I'm like, oh, this person.
Patricia Sung [00:55:04]:
I wanna hear about this. Yeah. So I'm excited. Definitely. Okay. Number 2, my most boring about me fact is?
Dr. Ari Tuckman [00:55:13]:
I think I just I grew up in New Jersey.
Patricia Sung [00:55:17]:
Number 3. When I'm having a rough day, my go to quote, song, poem, book, podcast, activity, whatever is.
Dr. Ari Tuckman [00:55:25]:
Oh, man. I'm so good at favorite songs. Like, there's so many. But just like anything, I would have music on 24 hours a day if it didn't drive my wife crazy.
Patricia Sung [00:55:37]:
Number 4. Don't tell anyone I
Dr. Ari Tuckman [00:55:40]:
I guess don't tell anyone I really still love eighties heavy metal.
Patricia Sung [00:55:44]:
Nice. Okay. Numbers, oh, 5. If I had a magic fairy wand for one spell, I would
Patricia Sung [00:55:51]:
I would do something political. I won't say what. I would do some things to change politics in America. I'll just say that.
Patricia Sung [00:56:00]:
And number 6. My best piece of advice for mamas with ADHD is?
Dr. Ari Tuckman [00:56:05]:
Take care of yourself. That one I didn't have to think about.
Patricia Sung [00:56:09]:
Well, thank you so much. I so appreciate you being here and sharing your wisdom and, letting us know that there's hope that we can work towards these things that are uncomfortable and a huge part of our lives and our relationships, but yet you gave us some really great starting points to, have those conversations and that there is there's hope. It can get better.
Dr. Ari Tuckman [00:56:27]:
It does get better.
Patricia Sung [00:56:28]:
Thank you so much.
Patricia Sung [00:56:29]:
Awesome. Thanks for having me.
Patricia Sung [00:56:30]:
Of course. I really appreciate it.
Patricia Sung [00:56:33]:
For more resources, classes, and community, head over to my website, motherhoodinadhd.com.