Is it ADHD Hypersensitivity or Sensory Overload? Using Interoception and Somatics to Listen to and Connect with Your Body with Elizabeth Brink and Anna Lopez #178
When you don’t realize that you’re frustrated until after you’re yelling at your entire family…
When you don’t notice you have to pee until it’s an emergency…
When you don’t catch that you’ve been thirsty for hours…
It’s embarrassing, frustrating, or both when you don’t feel like you’re in control of your own body. Struggling with your interoception is an everyday occurrence for people with ADHD.
How can you strengthen your awareness and tune into your body’s cues so that you feel more sturdy, stable, and present throughout your day?
Today’s guests and friends, Elizabeth Brink and Anna Lopez share how you can begin to listen to your body and feel connected to your brain, body, and feelings.
Anna Lopez is a neurodivergent, single, mom of two boys living in Austin, TX. She’s a psychotherapist, psychiatric PA, and neurodivergent coach, who loves helping people learn about their brain and lift the shame of the way it shapes how they show up in the world.
Elizabeth Brink is a trauma-informed, body-based coach for neurodivergent people. Elizabeth believes the wisdom of the body offers a unique shortcut to fully embracing the self, which is critical for lasting change.
We dive into polyvagal theory, somatics, and interoception, to link the science and the art of listening to yourself and building your self-trust.
Connect with Elizabeth & Anna:
Elizabeth Brink:
Website: http://www.thrivingsistercoaching.com
Join the Enclave here: https://the-enclave.co
Instagram: @coachelizabethbrink
Pinterest: @coachebrink
Twitter: @coachelizabethb
Facebook: @coachelizabethbrink
Anna Lopez:
Website: http://www.braverywellness.com
Instagram: @adhdinatx
Twitter: @adhdinatx
Stop Medusa Mom in her tracks with these 10 tips to calm down before you lose your cool! Watch (or read) the free video here: https://www.patriciasung.com/calm
Anna Lopez 00:00
I think we like think about fixing, it's like, well, how do I fix my anxiety or how to fix my dissociation? Whatever it is. And it's like, a lot of it is just noticing it. Witnessing it. That does like that goes so far, when you start to witness it like you worry less about the fixing part.
Patricia Sung 00:20
Are you overwhelmed by motherhood and barely keeping your head above water? Are you confused and frustrated by how all the other moms make it look so easy, you can figure out how to manage the chaos in your mind, your home, or your family, I get your mama, parenting with ADHD is hard. Here is your permission slip to let go of the Pinterest or the visions of organization and structure fit for everyone else. Let's do life like our brains do life creatively, lovingly, and with all our might. When we embrace who we are and how our brains work, we can figure out how to live our lives successfully, and in turn, lead our families. Well, at the end of the day, we just want to be good moms. but spoiler alert, you are already a great mom. ADHD does not mean you're doomed to be a hot mess. Mama, you can rewrite your story from shame spiral to success story. And I'll be right here beside you to cheer you on.
Patricia Sung 01:21
Welcome to motherhood in ADHD. Hey there successful mama. It's your friend Patricia Sung. Well, I am just so excited today because today I am sharing with you two of my internet friends turned real friends. And I think I met Elizabeth through our friend Liz Lewis because Elizabeth and Liz host the Enclave, which I've talked about lots of times, is a beautiful community for women and non binary folks. It's such a cool community to learn about each other and talk about like deep things in relation to ADHD. I just I absolutely love it. Then in the enclave for a while we had a group of moms meeting and that's where I met Anna. And these are people that I have talked to on Zoom for years. And I finally got to meet them in person at the ADHD conference in November and I got to meet them in Dallas. And it was just so fun to finally meet people that I've spent all this time talking to like, these are just two of my favorite ADHD advocates who like genuinely care about humans and love on people, and are the kind of people who are like catalysts in the neurodivergent community of like learning how to really accept yourself and learn about yourself and lean into who you are not trying to change you. And appreciate all the things that come with your unique brain.
Patricia Sung 02:50
So let me read their official bios to Elizabeth brink is a trauma informed body based coach for neurodivergent people. She believes that the wisdom of the body offers a unique shortcut to fully embracing the self, which is critical for lasting change. And Lopez is a neurodivergent single mom of two boys living in Austin, Texas. She's a psychotherapist, psychiatric PA and neurodivergent coach, she loves helping people learn about their brain and lift the shame of the way it shapes how they show up in the world. I cannot wait to share this conversation with you, where we talk about understanding how our bodies and how we feel things and how the physical manifestation of our feelings and what's going on around us and how we can connect to what we're really feeling in that moment. And then use that for our benefit, understanding who we are how things work, letting go of the shame of the way that we react in knowing that like that's how our body is meant to function and then adding resources to our toolbox so that we can take care of ourselves in a way that makes sense and how we deal with stress. And we deal with change and we deal with all the incoming stimulus that exists in our world. Now if this kind of topic is your jam, I invite you to join us in successful mama meetups this month because we are going to be talking the theme for March about listening to yourself and your body. A group discussion is happening next week on March 8. So hope to see you over there. Remember it's patriciasung.com/meetup to join us. Let's jump in to this conversation with Elizabeth Brink and Anna Lopez. Hi y'all!
Elizabeth Brink 04:31
Hi.
Anna Lopez 04:33
Hello.
Patricia Sung 04:34
So am I kind of beside myself because like interviewing, like people that I know in real life makes me really happy and I finally got to meet y'all at the conference in Dallas. It was like yeah, I get to put like real like bodies. The reason I asked you all here today is that one I was so sad because I was volunteering during your talk at the conference and I'm like, we will know what happened. And this piece of ad Do you like the more that I've diving into it? I was like, I didn't know until me this earlier. So that is why right here, because they feel like when we understand how our bodies function, and like, how everything's connected, it all starts to make sense. So can we start with like, the basics of what we're talking about? Like, what is polyvagal theory? And how does that interact with our brains and our minds and our ADHD? What is it? Let's start there.
Elizabeth Brink 05:26
Yeah. Thanks for having us. Yeah, I mean, I think polyvagal theory is, was created by Steven Porges. And you can Google it and find all kinds of incredible information and videos and things about it. But it's essentially a theory of understanding the nervous system, and how we are wired to have certain responses that happen in our body that move us into different threat states in our body, or, like safety calm states, I'll say. And so according to pourrez, there are these different states in the nervous system that correlate with how you may be feeling in your body. So it's all built upon the idea of the vagus nerve, which is a nerve that runs from the base of your skull. And it really connects every part of your internal system, it touches every major organ, and it weaves its way down and back up, it's by your vocal cords, it's behind your ears, it's all over. And it's sending messages to and from the brain in the body. And what we know is that about 70% of the messages are coming from the body up to the brain. So huge amount of information coming up from the body. And polyvagal theory kind of gives us this really nice framework to understand when we feel a certain way, whether it's an emotion or a certain sensation in our bodies, we might be able to interpret it and understand it, and then resource ourselves in it in a different way. So it's a great framework. And then in addition to that poor guys came up with this word called interoception. So Anna, you want to talk about interoception?
Anna Lopez 07:07
Sure, so interoception is our felt sense. So that means being able to sense or know, if you're feeling physical things such as like hunger or nausea, or like a bump into a table and bruise your leg into more emotional states if you're like, feeling sad, or happy, those kinds of things. And so, Steven Porges report is I never know how to say his name, basically was, you know, interoception deals with the polyvagal state. And we'll kind of like linked them in here in a second. But just that some people kind of either are hyper aware of certain felt senses, or some people are hypo, not as aware of some felt senses. And you can also have both at the same time. And so that correlates a lot to like ADHD ears, because we can be hyper aware of certain things and very unaware of other felt senses, like, you know, I know a lot of people who struggle with remembering to eat, you know, things like that. And so that's why it's important to like, think about these things. And with the polyvagal system together.
Elizabeth Brink 08:18
Yeah, and I just want to add that the reason this framework is really helpful, I think, especially for parents and caregivers, is that when we are caregiving, our nervous system is involved, because it's involved in our whole lives, right. And so, Deb Dana, who kind of translates polyvagal, into a framework that like practitioners can understand and utilize a little bit better. She talks a lot about like, our nervous system is constantly sending and receiving messages. And that goes for everyone else's, too. So what I've seen is a lot of neurodivergent children and adults, but especially in children, they are reading nervous systems, and they are picking up on nervous system cues, and it's activating them, and then it activates the caregiver. And all of a sudden, everyone's dysregulated everyone's having a tantrum. And the polyvagal theory gives us this container to understand what is actually happening in our bodies. And I think that brings back in the agency in those moments from feeling like you're just gonna get flooded and swallowed up in this tantrum. And then you're gonna feel shame and regret and pain because of how that may be comes out of you. And for some people, it's not explosive for some people, the responses to shut down and to ice people out. And so all of these things have impact on our interpersonal relationships, including and especially our kids and they have the ability to trigger us to such a greater extent than really anyone else in all creation. And so I have found that this theory has created a lot of like liberation from the shame of what's happening to me in that moment, rather than what I did, but like, what happened to me my system had this reaction and how can I learn about that? So that in those moments, I have half a chance of either recovering the moment or at least repairing it afterward, in a way that doesn't feel like I'm just a terrible mom, and I yelled at you, and I'm really sorry. And understanding for myself. Oh, okay. Something about that tripped off something in me. And that created this explosive. For me, though, it's outbursts. For me. It's, it's I get mad. I don't shut down. I almost said, unfortunately. But I'm like, I don't know. unhelpful. And also, but words, you know, you can't like bring the words back in. So it feels more harmful to me anyway.
Patricia Sung 10:52
No, so what you all were just just went like, I'm like, oh, I want to talk about all those things at once. But I'm gonna rein it in one at a time. So I want to share it like I asked in my Facebook group, what people had questions about, and one of the moms Beth literally asked this question that you just said, is like, her little guy, like notices all the little things have like this scratch that's like, barely there is like, have a bruise from six days ago, that's practically gone. Like he's very aware of all these things. And then she's like, but also one time he broke his collarbone and was jumping on the trampoline. And there's like, I'm fine. She's like, how do I deal with these? Like, she called them mixed signals? And I'm like, Are they mixed up? Or like different things louder or quieter? Like, how do you help your child or even yourself like, recalibrate, to be able to differentiate, like, what matters? And what can be let go? Because to us, it's like, that doesn't make sense. But obviously, it's true. Because that if, if the kid says he's feeling fine with the broken collarbone, like, clearly, it's not empowering him.
Elizabeth Brink 11:55
We should bottle and sell that if we can figure that out. But I do think, and I, I want to hear what you have to say about this. But I do think that this is like a lifelong question of like, how do I help my system know, when the threat is legitimate? And when it requires that kind of response? And when does it need to be soothed, and I still struggle with that. But Anna, I want to hear what you think.
Anna Lopez 12:18
You know, in addition to like, ADHD, or just children, I don't know, children are strange, my five year old does exactly the same way. And it's like, dude, like you literally faceplant eight times a day, and like, no problem, and you got to cut and you're screaming in the bathtub, it's just like too much for me sometimes. But I think sometimes, like, why the smaller things matter more to kids and even like, adults is that there's a lot of those smaller things happening. And so, you know, with ADHD, like, it's really hard to ignore some of those sensory input that we're getting. And so it's like, all of these little things are kind of bothering you at one time. And they usually, like kind of hurt continuously. I feel like that's part of why kids can like get caught up in these like, little things. And then like, other things are bigger, you know, don't seem to bottom like a broken collarbone or something like that. But, you know, everybody is different, too. So some people have lower pay tolerances in certain parts of their body with certain kinds of injuries, and then higher pain tolerance. And so it's hard. I think, like, one of the things is like, just saying, like, oh, yeah, kind of allowing the kid to understand, yeah, it hurts. And you're also going to be okay, there's other parts of you that are not hurting your overall safe and Okay. And, you know, I have to do that with my kid, not necessarily with like, pain stuff, but he'll get super frustrated with like playing a game. I'm like, oh, yeah, you're really frustrated right? Now. I can't fix that for him. But it's like, it's really hard. And it's just acknowledging it, letting them actually deal with the emotion because when we don't deal with it, that's when these kind of polyvagal things that we talked about kind of kind of take over you, Eva can go into like fight or flight where you're just like anxious, or irritable or whatever. Or you can go into freeze where you're just like avoiding numbing, trying to like, ignore whatever sensations that you're feeling.
Elizabeth Brink 14:11
I was thinking too about that scenario. And thinking about what happens in the body when we have what would be called like a shock trauma. So something that happens that's big, right, our system might go into a protective state where we are a little bit dissociated from what's happening and we might think a little bit more clearly there would be a lot of adrenaline and potentially a big reaction from other people around us which can also sometimes soothe the nervous system. Like if you're in a panic state, and you're feeling really scared having someone come in with energy of like, I got this I'm going to take care of it can sometimes help your system to just like stay in that flight response, but not actually run. And so it could also be a little bit of that that like when there is something big happening The brain does different things with that kind of adrenaline and cortisol than it does when these little things happen along the way where the tolerance may be seems lower. I mean, I'm a huge complainer, I will find something to complain about. And my husband and I laugh about it sometimes. But like, I just can't not complain if something is bugging me. And sometimes it's an emotional thing too, because that's a sensory input as well, that like there's something going on in a relationship. And I just cannot complain about it or mention it or like, Oh, that was really annoying. And I think when we think about the whole system, and we think about the bigger picture, a lot of people with neurodivergent brains, and a lot of people who have experienced different kinds of trauma have what some might say, are like reverse responses to threat. And I just don't think it's actually a reverse response. I think that there's something biologically, you know, intentional there that when the threat is little, our system is kind of allowed to freak out, because it's actually the stakes aren't that high. And when it is something really big, I think freeze and some of that stuff comes into play a little more, like Anna was saying, we may not see the reaction that we would expect.
Anna Lopez 16:14
And that's a good point. And I also think when you said like those bigger shock traumas or events like that, like breaking your collarbone, and like, mom or dad's reaction to that, when you have the emotional support, emotional support is a big game changer in not having PTSD, or see PTSD. So when you have those kind of emotional supports, in those ways, it can allow your nervous system to kind of calm down, and then you know, those things are not as big of a deal. It's like, yeah, I have a broken collarbone. But also I can deal with it, because like I have the support, I have the support I need. But it's like, your kid gets a cut or a bruise. Like you're not always there when it happens, or they don't want to say something. And then like, you know, I always talk about it like as like a block of towers. And it's just like, all of these things kind of stacking up until like, they just kind of fall over. And so that can happen with ADHD or and that's why it's, you know, trying to be more aware, notice what's going on in your felt sense is important, because we get so high on those blocks. They can't like sustain it anymore, because there's just like one column, which is not very sturdy, so they're gonna fall over. And then you're gonna, like, freak out people like what happens, you know, why did you freak out? You know,
Patricia Sung 17:24
I love that analogy.
Elizabeth Brink 17:26
Yeah, the cumulative stress, I think is really underrated in neurodivergent. Circles, understanding that, you know, if you're masking during the day to behave yourself or others, even if it's your caregiver, if you're dealing with a lot of cognitive functioning, and you've had some other kind of distressing thing happen, you know, maybe you got too hungry, right? That's a stressor that can affect your mood. But all those things, it's cumulative. And so I think we see a lot of neurodivergent students come home at the end of the day, and people are like, oh, yeah, of course, it's like melt down city for all kids. But really, what we're talking about is different. It's like what Anna is saying it's this cumulative buildup of this tower that has had no opportunity for recovery throughout the day. And I think what we see is kids who may not be identified as neurodivergent, they might have more resourcing internally, to be able to tune out certain sensory inputs and recover throughout the day and little bits that they wouldn't have quite the same reaction after school. So you know, my neurodivergent kid having a meltdown after school is not the same, because what's happening for that child is a complete sensory shutdown. So in terms of polyvagal theory, they're in collapse, they're in what we would call the dorsal vagal state in the nervous system, where they've had so much input, they've been so activated all day that they collapse, they cannot talk, they cannot cooperate. They need truly need recovery time. And sometimes it takes until the next day, right. And so understanding that changed the way that I parented and change the way I interacted with my kids, when I started parenting from a nervous system perspective, with this polyvagal theory framework in mind, it really shifted and we're not perfect, I mean, we still have lots of bad days, but it really shifted things for how our evenings went, because of this understanding of these blocks of like, being able to tell by looking at my kid, whoa, the towers really high today and it looks like it's getting wobbly, right? Or it's like already crumbled. Sometimes it would be I would say, like they get into the car and the car was like a vortex into like the dark side. I'm like, Oh, it tumbled like literally bumped over while climbing into the car. And then the meltdown started in the car. So I think this idea of like our kids noticing injuries throughout the day, all the way to like are they just noticed stressors in their system until they get to the point where they can't tolerate it any longer. And then we're seeing reactions. And it's like, what? I brought you the wrong snack? This isn't that big a deal. Like you got a little bump on your knee. Yeah,
Anna Lopez 20:14
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Yeah, it's like collarbone like that was broken at the beginning of the day, nobody cares. But then over the time, it's like, little brother punched you in the eye, then you like tripped and fell on your knee, then you got to cut from like playing in the sand and the rocks. And then all of a sudden, like they're having a meltdown. So it makes sense. All of these things kind of adding up and just like to kind of go along with that, like, I took my kids to like this coffee shop slash, like, they have like little play area for kids. And my nervous system was like, done after a while. It's like the kids, I was trying to, like, you know, do some work on my computer. But they kept asking me to do stuff. So I had to keep getting up and like last stem sometime, because they move really fast. And like, where did you go looking for them to go pee, and I have to take the other one with me. And he doesn't want to go. And then they decided to go outside and like order a smoothie. And then Big Brother leaves little brother outside by himself. And there's just a lot. And I got two different smoothies. And that was a bad idea. So they're crying about it and like, share, and I literally was outside. I'm like, we got it. And he's like, why I'm like, I'm at my limit. Like, that's all I could say I was like, because I felt like I was getting to the point where I was gonna like yell at them or just be like, I don't care what you think? Or what's going on with you. I haven't done being your mom right now. We need to go home.
Elizabeth Brink 21:35
But Anna, can I ask? How did you know in your system, you were at your limit? Like, what were the signals that you got?
Anna Lopez 21:42
I was like this feeling of like starting to get overwhelmed and like realizing I can be very patient with them. And so when I just feel like I can't be patient with them anymore. And I want to yell at them or just like walk away, or something. That's when I know. And then just like feeling of like agitation starts to build up. It's like, rising in me. And I'm like, Okay, this is not good. We need to leave.
Elizabeth Brink 22:04
And what how would you describe that sensation of agitation? What does that for you?
Anna Lopez 22:08
So imagine you have a tall glass and you're you put the tap on full blast, you know, in your sink, and you put the glass under there and you see you know, like sloshes around while it's filling up. That's to me, it's like the it's not the smooth like tap filling the glass. It's like, sloshing in. It's like, eating up in my body.
Elizabeth Brink 22:28
Yeah, so that right there, Patricia is a great example of interoception. And getting that input that sensation input from her system that's telling her that flushing feeling right, like there's something moving, there's something happening, and it's rising. And so for Anna in that coffee shop, she's noticing that and the more that she notices that particular type of sensation for her, the faster every time later, she's going to be able to be like oops, this is not going anywhere. Good, right. And leaving is a great option when you really are like the tower is about to topple the cups about to overflow. But when you notice the sloshing initially, that's where we can get better practicing noticing that sooner. And that takes a lot of work. And it's hard because right, she just described all this other sensory input and cognitive load of trying to manage the executive functioning of trying to manage all those moving parts not to mention your laptop sitting on the table, who knows where your wallet is, like, hopefully you're just generally feeling environment, but like, right, you're all those things that are going on. And maybe you have to go to the bathroom, maybe you're really thirsty in that moment. And so your body is just at this limit. And when we understand polyvagal in our nervous system, and then this idea of interoception to me, it like unlocks the agency in that moment to be like, I'm not even ordering smoothies, or I'm ordering them to go and I'm packing up right now, because I can feel this is rising. And before I have to physically Chase and like, you know, pin my kids down into their car seats, which has happened to me, I'm gonna start to finish toward the door while I still have this like modicum of self control left in my voice, right? It's in your vocal box because that's where the last place it goes. And then our kids are reading it like as it comes to our vocal block. They're like, well, we have pressed magic button and it's like,
Patricia Sung 24:26
Wait say that again. You said it goes to yourvocal cords last?
Elizabeth Brink 24:30
That rising up right so our vagus nerve runs up past our vocal cords and on its like return pad and up around our ears. So when we have all this sensory input coming up in through the body, and especially if you're activated, you're often going to notice it in your voice. It's either going to be in the texture and tone of your voice or it's going to be in the energy coming out right like the energy comes out my mouth like I'm going to be snippy or short or dry or whatever are no longer able to mask right no longer able to verbally perform. And I think that's where a lot of the shame spirals for caregivers gets tipped off because either you shut down, you clamp down, you're just like getting a call. Or you're like, I'm done here, which is more me went on here, get the car. You know it really hard to shake it off.
Anna Lopez 25:24
Yeah. And like you said, it takes time to like, notice and really, like, it's taken me time to start to really notice those things. And I think like you said, like how getting my ADHD diagnosis was helpful, because it's like, oh, it's not my fault, my brain wired differently. And so it allowed me to be able to notice these things and actually take action. But you know, there are still times where I just push past that. And I just like, I'm letting them run around, do whatever they want. And then we get home and like, evening stuff is just bad, because I'm just yelling left and right. They're like, jumping off the bed at for, it's just like a lot of stuff. And so for me, that was like a big thing to like, not let myself because I'm really good at just going into dissociation, functional dissociation mode. And so I was like, can't do that we got we got to know we need to get out here before I lose it. And there's like a woman's Bible study next to us. So they probably heard me go I'm at my limit. But
Elizabeth Brink 26:18
But see, and I love that too, because it's such a good description of what is happening in our kids, too, right? They don't have any of this language. And that's what I think I can speak for Anna and I both like we both have worked and are working really hard with our children to teach them this language, so that they can start to like name it. And that moment to not just the emotion I'm feeling but actually naming like the sensation like my tummy is feeling all spinny or whatever those words are so that they start to like interpret for themselves when that stuff is happening. I did want to just one thing really quick and I will use say what functional dissociation is because that there are a lot of caregivers out there who operate like this. And don't have that language for it.
Anna Lopez 27:02
Yeah, so like dissociation is basically like just not really being present in your body. So like that's what also what we call like the freeze the shutdown like the numbing a lot of caregivers like you said, probably function from this point, you're just trying to get through it. All of these things are getting thrown at you sensory wise or overstimulated whatever's happening. And you just kind of like I'm shutting it down, I'm just gonna like power through it. Functional dissociation is basically like any parent who has to learn how to like shut down their own emotions, their own felt sense. IOP I don't poop, I don't eat, I don't drink water, you know, so that I can like get things done with my kids. Like, I don't stop, I don't rest until they're asleep. And then I pass out. So basically, that's what functional dissociation is, it's like not really being really very present. And also not really allowing yourself to have that felt sense that interoception to kind of, you know, gauge where you're at and like regulate, balance your nervous system back out. And you just you just power through.
Patricia Sung 28:03
So let me take a stab at what I see a lot of women do like a different moms that I talked to you like I'm picturing like these, this would look a lot like it's supposed to be bedtime, but I'm gonna Doom scroll on my phone and ignore the fact that it's bedtime for like, another 30 minutes, because I just can't do any more things. Would that fall in that category?
Anna Lopez 28:23
Yep.
Elizabeth Brink 28:23
Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And, and something like that, I would say is that they're self soothing. One of the things, Deb Dana, the polyvagal kind of interpreter also says is that we don't choose, it's not a cognitive choice to move into the States and our nervous system. So when we're moving up and down this polyvagal ladder, and we're moving into that functional dissociation, on some level, there may be some agency there of, I'm choosing to not resource myself out of this dissociative kind of collapsing feeling, because to activate myself out of it brings me back into activation. And I cognitively and physically do not have the energy to mobilize literally mobilize, but the shifting down into it at that level of overwhelm, that's not a choice. Like, we don't make the choice to go into a state of collapse, we don't make a choice to go into a threat response where we get really cranky, and you know, biting. That's something that happens to our system. It detects threat, and it sends us into these protective states. And that, to me is like one of the most empowering pieces of information is that you're not choosing to lose your stuff. You're not choosing to like shut down and ice out your family that in the midst of that there might be moments of agency where there's a choice to resource yourself right and move out of it. If you have those resources, but in a minute,
Patricia Sung 29:46
I'm going to pause you there. Can you explain when you say resource out What do you mean by that?
Elizabeth Brink 29:50
Yeah, I just mean, like using any kind of strategy that you've learned, whether it be through tic toc or through working with a coach or a therapist, to help Help yourself to transition out of that state and your nervous system. So a collapsed state dorsal vagal moving out of that would be something related to mobilizing because you have to move physically out of collapse. And if you're in a agitated state, if you're overwhelmed, and you're agitated, and you're in the sympathetic nervous system, in order to move out of that you can move up or down, you can move down into collapse. So you can extend so far that your body's like I have nothing left and you collapse, or you can move up into ventral which is where we feel safe and connected. And when we resource ourselves, we do things like if I'm in a sympathetic state, which is kind of my home away from home in my system, like I was this morning. So I have two kids home sick from school, and my partner is out of town. And I lost my cool I didn't get good sleep last night, and I didn't want to negotiate every single thing this morning. And I just was like, No, I just like I mean, the my deepest guttural No, just it was just a general blanket. No, right. I don't even know what the question was. But it was a no, everyone started to cry as they should. Because they are four and six. But in my system, right? I'm in that sympathetic state. I'm totally activated. I said, No, I walked away, I left the room, which is not ideal, but it's sometimes absolutely necessary. I left the room, I went into the kitchen, and I resourced myself, I took a deep breath, I started to do some dishes. And I was like, it's not their fault that you're tired. It's not their fault that they want to negotiate everything, but they're doing what they're supposed to be doing. And they need you and you're tired today, and you have the space to be tired today, because you changed your schedule, right? So I'm being with my system, because my system is not okay, and it needs care. So I'm tending to me, I'm parenting myself first. And then I go to them and repair and connect with him. So resourcing in the moment for me today was walking away and taking a deep breath, which I don't want to be like, flippant about deep breaths, but breathwork is probably one of the most transformative things in terms of managing your nervous system. But that's what I mean by resourcing, and is really good about understanding the resourcing out of that collapse state. And that's some of what she and I have presented on Anna, do you want to share what some of the resources are out of that?
Elizabeth Brink 32:13
Yeah, yeah. First, I wanted to say like, one thing I tell clients a lot is that your brain just is protecting you. Okay, so it doesn't know it cannot sense the difference between a real threat and a perceived threat. So a lion chasing you and your toddler having a tantrum can feel equally as unsafe to your brain. So I say that because parents can get really upset about how they respond when their kids like throwing a tantrum. And it's like, your brain does not know the difference. It feels unsafe, it's going to react to protect you. It's in survival mode. There's fear happening. And so it's protecting you. And so when we kind of understand that, then we can go okay, this is my instinctual brain, what can I do to help my brain understand, we're not actually under a threat, like a kid having a tantrum, for the most part, no one's going to die or get hurt, you know? So I just want to say that, but yes, the stuckness not being able to mobilize, I have a lot of that, because like I said, I'm a functional associator. And even this morning, it's like, I need to get out of bed, I need to get ready for this podcast interview. And I'm like, I can't move. I can't get myself up. And it's like behavioral stuff. I don't really feel like it works that well, a lot of the times, especially for ADHD years, especially if you're living a lot in dissociation, because you're stuck. So behavioral modifications don't work, because you're not doing anything. Yeah. It's like you can't make yourself move. So why would behavioral stuff do anything? It doesn't? Yeah. So for me, I was like, sitting there. And I was just imagining myself in a yoga pose that I did in my yoga teacher training recently. And like, ah, like started feel more relaxed. And I didn't even think about getting up. I just got up like, I didn't have to be like, Get up Get up, get up. I just got up. I was like, Oh, that was interesting. So when you're feeling stuck, sometimes imaginative work and work I think like you said, dubbed he calls it ventral anchors. Yeah. So basically, it's like imagining something that you know, makes you feel really calm, just like that warm fuzzy feeling almost like in your little happy place. And so sometimes that can be like a real thing that happened or can be an imaginative things. But you know, I use something that actually I have done before my nervous system remembers that remembers what my body feels like when it does that. So it's easy for it to kind of go back to that place or sometimes it's like thinking about really like cute memories with my kids like one time when my three year old like ran up to the door after Daddy dropped him off and it was like mommy and he like ran up to me and gave me a big hug and even the garbageman saw us and they were smiling. Like it makes me feel so good and like God. So like things like that can help me feel a little bit unstuck. Some things I do with my clients because I work with a lot of people who live in dissociation a lot chronic to say Association. It's like, what if we just twist their body to one side, like just moving your body just a little bit and doing it in a mindful way, because everybody moves their body all the time. But it's like actually being like, notice what happens when you took twist to the left? What do you notice in your muscles? But if you like, add in, like some head movements, moving your head up and down, you know that what if we twist to the other side? Or like, what if we put our hands on top of our head, like anything to like, allow you to start to feel your body can help you feel more present less fuzzy. And then I always tell people is like, the behavioral changes will come first, let's help you feel a little less a little less unstuck. How can we do that? Let's continue to allow the nervous system to understand what it feels like to be a little less unstuck. And then the things that you want to do need to do whatever will come. And so it's really about like, oh, yeah, I did, like I do that a lot. I did that with one client yesterday. And it was like, two, three minutes. So it's like twisting and doing things with hands. And he was like, I feel less fuzzy feel like I can think clearly my words are coming out clearer, just like by doing tiny little things like that. So noticing your body, sometimes if you're feeling stuck is like really, I literally can't even do a twist. It's not happening. It's like okay, well, let's let's use our imagination, because imagination is just as powerful as the actual physical experience. I hope that made sense.
Patricia Sung 36:21
It did!
Elizabeth Brink 36:22
I thought it did. I also want to add for the sympathetic state, resourcing yourself in that state, the story that I told about going into the kitchen, the going into the kitchen was part of the releasing of the energy, right. So when you're in the sympathetic state, your body gets filled with adrenaline sometimes. And you actually physically do need to move your body in order to release some of that adrenaline. And sometimes it comes out by yelling, right? It's just energetic. And sometimes it comes out by running literally away or moving away. So moving away from them, if I were, like, heavily activated and really outraged, even if it was completely justified, right? When I'm in that state of being totally outraged, and I'm flooded, I can't think clearly and I don't have the agency to interact with the dilemma in a way that like I actually want to. And so that's when I would look to some of the resources, like maybe doing some push ups, which sounds terrible to me. But it actually like any kind of physical exertion, that feels a little extreme. So you know, a wall push is great for this, if you can push against a wall with your elbows a little bit bent as hard as you can, for as long as you can. I mean, really, until you like, you should be panting a little bit at the end of it, right? You're gonna find that some of that has kind of burned off and released, you're going to notice your breath and your voice, things are going to settle and you're going to be able then to say, Okay, what do I need to do about the thing, right? I didn't need that much resourcing this morning. But there are times when you do and that's when you can look up stuff online to around and I have some videos on Instagram, around just quick, easy, sometimes discreet things you can do when you feel really outraged because I think that's an emotion that's not socially acceptable, especially for those who've been socialized as women. And we are in a lot of spaces where that might flood our system. And then the whole rest of our workday is shot, or the whole rest of our time with our kids is just like this fuzzy, like, I don't know, I was just circling the drain around this thing somebody said to me, and that's when I would resource myself using some tools to help my nervous system get back to that place where I feel like connecting with others, and that connecting with others can be connecting with myself. It can be the I'm not wanting to dissociate. I'm not wanting to fill my time with things that keep me from even connecting with the pain or the outrage that I'm feeling with myself. I hope that's helpful. Yeah.
Patricia Sung 38:58
What do you do when you're really struggling to calm down when you're dysregulated, and your brain is offline? When reducer mom is about to rear her ugly head, and you don't want to yell at your kids again. But you also desperately need some time and space to yourself. Well, you're in luck by law, because I've got a free video resource waiting for you. I'm sharing my top 10 tips for what to do when you're losing your cool and you need to resign each of these things you can do in under a minute with no fancy prep, so that you can calm down enough to make a different choice than exploding like a volcano on everybody in the vicinity. Now, since it's a video, you can watch what I do for easier practice. And of course, there's audio plus captions to read it. I also have a little cheat sheet underneath of all the ideas so you can grab that list. Stick in your phone somewhere so that I'm a time where you're like totally freaking out. You can go that list and quickly pick the idea that's going to help you calm down in that moment. Head over to patriciasung.com/calm. That's C A L M and download your free video and how you can keep your cool when you're overwhelmed. That's patriciasung.com/calm, because you can learn how to take care of yourself so that you can take care of your family. Your retirement all this like physical sense.
Patricia Sung 40:18
How does that interplay with the feelings that we have? Because like, before we were did the interview we're talking about, like, what we're gonna talk about one of the things that we had mentioned was like, the idea of like, when you have a feeling, it's supposed to last for like 90 seconds, but a lot of people with ADHD will go, it never lasts 90 seconds. What are you talking about? So first, like, I kind of want to just address that, like, why is it feel like it's not 90 seconds? But then like, how does all that feeling Interplay then with our bodies?
Anna Lopez 40:44
One thing I would say is emotions are also physical, they're very much connected. So we've been talking about like, interoception, not everyone's aware that their emotions are physical, like there's actual things that are happening, a state changes happening within us. Or like, when we're happy, we don't realize we have this like releasing feeling, you know, when we're sad or shame, like, we don't realize that we kind of feel like our bodies like curling and like there's a whole science around like body language. And there are people who do that for a living, like, analyze people's body language, because our brains will give us a way, we just don't realize that. So that's what I would say about emotions. Emotions are physical in a lot of ways, we just aren't always aware that they are. And then what was the other part,
Patricia Sung 41:29
I forgot 90 seconds, which I guess I'm
Elizabeth Brink 41:32
I remember hearing 60s. And so I don't know where that comes from. So you know, but just anecdotally, I'm like, what that does, that sounds made up. Because depending on what you in your system have experienced throughout the course of your life, you absolutely could be feeling offended or hurt or whatever, that Anna could have been feeling that full sloshy feeling in the moment in the coffee shop for five full minutes, while she's trying to figure out what the heck I'm supposed to do. And she's feeling overwhelmed, which is an emotion and a feeling. And so, and maybe there's some anger, maybe there's some disgust in there, right, because like we're getting interrupted, and we want to be able to do what we want to do. But I think in the moment, it doesn't really matter to say how long an emotion lasts, what matters, I think more is that it doesn't last forever, that there is an end to what it will feel like and that sometimes we can support our system to work through that emotion more efficiently. And so when I'm feeling really, really angry, and I do a wall push, or I resource myself by telling usually my sisters about how I'm really outraged about something, I'm resourcing myself, and I'm helping my system integrate and resolve the dysregulation that's come up, right? So emotions, they are bodily sensations, always, they're always connected to our bodies. And the 90 seconds might be something to do with the messaging loop in our system with our vagus nerve. So the intensity of it may not last much longer than that. But the feeling itself might still be there.
Elizabeth Brink 43:15
I mean, this is why people are in therapy, because they've been holding emotions, that gets stuck in their body for lifetimes. But in the moment when you're feeling that it's the knowing, like Anna said, the cognitive stuff, and the behavioral stuff doesn't always help in the moment, because knowing this isn't going to last forever. I actually had a client say this to me this week. Yeah. Okay. It's not going to last forever. But right now, when it's happening, I don't that is of no soothing at all, to me to know that it doesn't last forever, or that it's going to pass. What do I do right now? Right? And she's having some particularly difficult circumstances right now, where there is some, like long suffering, like stuff is not okay. And in that sense, like, we have to start talking about what are the resources you have to cope with those long periods of time that are harder, like if you have a sick kid, or like a seriously ill kid or you yourself are dealing with long COVID or some other chronic illness, right? There's going to be times where those feelings are going to be there for a long time, but what we do with them and how we kind of befriend our body is what makes it less traumatic, like Anna said, like, it doesn't necessarily have to lead to PTSD, where the next time anyone has a poor health report, we get triggered into total panic, because of this time in our lives when somebody was really sick. And we were afraid for a long time. That's my two cents on it. I don't know about the 90 seconds, but I do think you know,
Anna Lopez 44:41
It might be the like, initial chemical response in your body that's like 90 seconds but you know, like emotions sort of like this like waves, you know, and sometimes they have high peaks and sometimes they have lower peaks and sometimes they're pretty flat. So I think that sometimes like even if you think about grief, like it can be a lot of like way Dave's like some bigger waves and others and things like that. And so I think one of the things is like people can get stuck in emotions when they don't deal with them properly. So it's either you get hyper fixated on it, and it's like, oh my gosh, I'm feeling anxious. I'm feeling anxious and feeling achy, because it's like, of course, you're gonna like, it's gonna feel like it's lasting forever when you're hyper fixating on it. Or if you don't deal with it, you move more into that freeze or numbness stuck state, then it's still kind of there. You're just not dealing with it.
Elizabeth Brink 45:29
Yeah, you're probably not sleeping, right? Like a lot of people who are stuffing anxiety and stress report like terrible sleep patterns, where they have like nights where they're awake in the night, and they don't know why. And nothing's really going on. But they've internalized they've got some stuck anxiety or some stuck fear from something that maybe happened that week, or maybe like 10 years ago. Yeah.
Anna Lopez 45:51
When clients are like, everything's going well, or patients more more, because I do have clients and patients. But when I have a patient is like, No, everything's going good. But then they're like relapsing a lot. You know, all this stuff. I'm like, You're dissociated. They truly think that everything's going well, like they're not lying to me, but they just don't have any connection to how they're actually feeling. Because they've had, like, the protective part has had to, like, stop it for so long, so that they can survive. I was there for a long time. Like, I don't know what I'm feeling. I think I'm okay. But there was actually a lot going on underneath that.
Patricia Sung 46:27
Yeah, I think that that makes sense to like, the 92nd thing I heard is like, that's the amount of time that it takes, like, if you were to sit with the feeling, that's the amount of time it takes for your body to like, write it out. But I think like, like you were saying, with ADHD, or you're feeling anxious, you're like, well, but I'm still anxious, I'm feeling you just like restart the timer every time because you're just feeling like, but I'm still anxious, but I'm still anxious. It's like, Well, you never let it go all the way through, because you, you don't know how yet. But I think the most like beautiful part of this conversation is understanding that, like your body is taking care of you, everyone's body's gonna take care of itself in their own way. So like, some people will go more towards free, some people will go more towards flight, some people go more towards fight. So we're all going to be different. And when we understand that everyone's body is taking care of themselves in a different way, it lifts that shame of knowing, like, It's not my fault, I'm not choosing to yell at my kids, I'm not choosing to like zone out and just turn into robot mom and just get everything done. And I'm not going to pay any attention to myself, because if I do, I'm gonna freak out, like, knowing that all of those things are ways that our bodies are keeping us safe. And that in that point, there's no shame there, your body's doing its job. And at the same time, you can also learn how to do those things in a way that's better for you than the choice that your body like auto chose. So like as you learn about yourself. And as you learn about your cues, then you can start to choose things in a different way to take care of yourself. Well that like the beauty of not having to feel shame over the fact that you lost your cool. It's like, okay, like, I'm not a horrible person.
Elizabeth Brink 47:59
One of my teachers, Maureen Gallagher says, you know, we don't want to take away resources we want to add. So if you look at that, like what you're saying, Patricia is, my body is keeping me safe, it's taking care of me. Absolutely. Is has been, you're here, right? So it's been brilliant job. And it needs more resources, it needs more tools in the toolkit. And we don't want to take away that dissociating is one of the tools that it uses. But we want to be sure that the system has other tools available that you may want to choose from, and that that's not your only tool, especially if it's one that you've gotten to a point where you've outgrown it or it feels like it's actually kind of getting in the way of you really thriving, then you want to say okay, well, like maybe let's add to it, and let's find some other skills that we can utilize in those moments in practice. The other thing I want to say about this is it takes a ton of practice, and practicing is every day in the moment. And if you've heard me talk anywhere, you've heard me talk about thirst because I think it is one of the easiest signals to tune into. And a lot of ADHD ears are taking ADHD medications which cause more thirst cause you to be more dehydrated. If you're on stimulant medication, you have that certain feeling in your mouth that cottony mouth feeling that is your body being thirsty. And for some of us, it can be easier if your interoception is hypo aware meaning it's not noticing that as much then that's where some of the behavioral things like you know having a water bottle with markings on it or a water bottle you really like or learning how you like to take in fluids like I love bubbly water.
Elizabeth Brink 49:41
So it's like one of the things that I'm like this is how I hydrate my body is I drink a couple of those a day. I also have this enormous regular water bottle because it has to be ice cold. And I know these things about my sensory needs in order for me to hydrate but in the moment noticing I'm thirsty is One of the ways in which we can practice interoception noticing, I need to go to the bathroom, whether or not you go whether or not you drink is loving. That's like next step. But like noticing that there are these biological needs in your body is you practicing interoception. And really quickly before you realize it, you will start noticing emotions, you will start noticing in certain interactions with people, Oh, something shifted in my body, because you've started just gently tuning in with like, is there a biological need here, anybody need a snack that like you can't then keep the other information from coming forward, like, hey, that didn't feel good. But that person just said, or the way they looked at me made me feel uncomfortable. And you will start noticing more. And that's the interception practice, you don't have to do anything with it. Just practicing the noticing is that first building block into a place where you're in a moment and you feel like you might get flooded and overwhelmed. And you're able to choose a different adventure, right than just the one that you've always done.
Anna Lopez 51:02
Yeah, the noticing the witnessing, I feel like that's like a majority of the work that is helpful for us and also helpful for our kids like, witnessing, like, what is actually happening with us, you know, being an actual observer, what's happening with us? Because I think we like think about fixing, it's like, well, how do I fix my anxiety or how to fix my dissociation or whatever it is. And it's like, a lot of it is just noticing it, witnessing it, that goes so far. And the fixing part, when you start to witness it, like, you worry less about the fixing part. Notice that you're just you're moving more into like a balance or regulation in your system, when you just even witness things. And like you said, like, you don't have to like be like, Oh, I'm thirsty, let me go get some water. Like, let's start with noticing. And that's why I said like, when I'm working with people are fully stuck, it's like, let's just start with getting a little bit less unstuck before we start moving into actually doing these things. And you'll naturally move that way. And that's why I'm not like, as a therapist, I'm not a homework person, because like, what we're learning is going to naturally move into your life, eventually.
Patricia Sung 52:10
I have one last question from what our listeners Candus asked. When you become more aware of your body and emotions being connected? How much did you communicate to other people about these sensations so that they understand how you feel?
Elizabeth Brink 52:24
You got some good questions.
Elizabeth Brink 52:27
I know I was like, That, for me triggers a thought around consent. And as someone who is in a partnership with someone who gets overwhelmed by my sensory experience of the world, you know, my husband can easily become overwhelmed by the input that I am conveying to him that I'm receiving. So we've had to practice me saying this thing happened today kind of tell you about it. And him saying yes. Or can we wait till the kids go down? Or can you just give me like, two bullet points about like the point of it, right? Like we've had to negotiate that between us. Because full disclosure I said to him was not that long ago, I just really wish that I had a friend who I could just talk at nonstop about whatever I want to, like as long as I want to anytime. What that does not exist now is like actually, I can do that with my sisters, but only through an app where they can like tune in at my convenience, and they can fast forward and stuff. But like that's my instinct, I am extroverted. And I am one who is more activated generally. And so my pull toward like emotional and mental connection is I want to offload everything as it's happening in real time. Because I want you to understand me, right? Like, I want you to get it and I want you to like keep this context in mind when you're like mad or frustrated or tired or something. And so that's where I have to get really honest about why I feel like I need to share the thing I need to share, right? So sometimes it's I have to practice share. So I will share with my sisters or I will share in a text message sometimes to Anna, the practice share of like, to basically another neurodivergent brain who can help me filter and just by doing that, like full share, I can see where the main points are. And then I can say to Cory, my husband, you know, this happened today and I was really frustrated. And here's what I need. And this is why that happened that way. And so he gets like a synopsis and then sometimes it is him and I want it to be him and I want the intimacy of it being him but it has to come with a certain amount of consent because I can absolutely take over and suck up all the oxygen in a room like in a matter of seconds. And so I just I've had to learn that and I've had to work on it in therapy and with my own coach to practice the vulnerability of saying, Oh, I really want to explain myself, would it be okay?
Elizabeth Brink 55:13
If I just in looking at the clock sometimes and seeing kind of six minutes to just like, say, what I want to say about what just happened? And sometimes he's up for that. And he's like, okay, but before when I wouldn't do the clock thing, there was a lot of like shutdown from his side of just like, Oh, God, because he never knew how long it would last. So we've had to negotiate that. And I would encourage people to do that, even in professional relationships, like even in your office, where it's like, oh, I just got this email. It's really frustrating. Can I tell you about it real quick? Do you have time? Or can we have lunch today, so I can talk about it. And to just normalize asking for permission, before we like take up space, you don't have to always do it or do it perfectly. But I do think integrating that as a practice can help you to feel less panicked, when you are sharing, they can help you actually get to the point faster. And they can help you to feel more connected to the other person. Because now you know, going into it, you have their attention, and they want to be there. And I think for those of us who have had a lot of negative relational experiences, that is hugely valuable to know this person is tuned in, and they really want to be there. And that you're respecting them by saying, I'm just going to talk seven minutes. And at the end of that he responds. And I say, I have four more minutes, right? It's not like it's a one and done ever thing, right? It can be. It's not like this is the only chance I ever will have to talk about this thing. That's my Yeah.
Anna Lopez 56:45
And I would add that like, also think about who you're sharing with, some people just don't get it, don't want to get it. They're critical, whatever, there's some people don't get it. And they're totally accepting. They're like, Sure, talk to me, I don't understand. But great, you know, but some people can't validate you. So I have a client who says, Why do you keep trying to buy milk at a hardware store? Why do you keep people who can't give, give you what you need. So you know, what we talked about earlier, like validation, emotional support is helpful, so that you don't have these traumas to your system. So if you can't get the emotional support back from this person, that you feel like you need that you want, why share it with them, it's, you know, like, it's just going to be more hurtful to you. So it's like finding those people that you can talk to, like caravan to you for seven minutes, you know, find a therapist, I don't know, but like finding people that you can actually talk to, because you do need to, like, get some of this stuff out. And maybe sometimes it's like journaling helps you get it out. If you're more introverted, it's just like, I just need to get it out, okay, journal, you know, but if you need to process out loud, which a lot of ADHD ears are like verbal processors, they need to get get it out. And then, you know, we'll have like Elizabeth said, like having that consent, having those boundaries, limitations around it. And, you know, being able to use that support, you know, user support, you have great use people, you know, with consent.
Elizabeth Brink 58:12
So I also want to say to that, that, that instinct, and that urgency to defend ourselves is not our fault. Like we've had so many experiences in our lives, that have put us in the position to need to explain ourselves and defend ourselves, that if you do find yourself with an instinctive jump to defend yourself, and to like state your case, there's a reason that your system has learned to do that. And that, when that's happening, there is something that you could take to a therapist and work on with like this need to jump to your own defense, and working on maybe this littler version of you, that felt like they needed to defend themselves all the time, and healing some of that relationship. So that, you know, for me, when I feel my like, inner child, my little girl who wants to, like be really liked, and I feel her wanting to defend herself in social settings. I can comfort her and I can be like, Okay, who? Yeah, I feel I feel you want to give them a lot of context right now. And these are not the people like Anna said, it's not the place or the people, but I know exactly what you're thinking. I hear you, I see you. We've talked to our sisters about it later or Cory later, right? And this isn't maybe the moment but noticing that, like, there also just may be a pattern for you of feeling like you want to give context and defend. And that there may be that may be an indicator that there's a place of healing for you there.
Patricia Sung 59:35
Okay, so before we do our lightning round, I want to ask you, how can the moms listening find you work with you? How do they find you? Where are you?
Anna Lopez 59:47
Well, I am on Instagram, not very well. I'm not a social media person, but you can find me there @adhdinatx. So @adhdinatx. So Though you can find me there and then I have my own therapy, it's private practice so you can find me on braverywellness.com. I do coaching and therapy, coaching worldwide therapy only for Texas residents. I wasn't gonna do like ketamine as my psychiatry part, but that's not happening. So but the other parts are happening. But you can always like still out and info thing there and I will respond back to you email it back.
Elizabeth Brink 1:00:28
You can find me online on my website, which is thrivingsistercoaching.com. They'll be in the shownotes. I'm also on Instagram @coachelizabethbrink, and I co-run a community for women and non binary folks who are neurodivergent that's called the enclave and you can find all that through my website.
Patricia Sung 1:00:50
Alright, so lightning round. All you have to do is answer the question. You don't have to give any explanation. Just fill in the blank and I'll just be about between the two of you. Okay. laughing at my difficulty. I'm gonna do and then I'll start with Anna. Okay. The best thing I've read or listened to recently is
Anna Lopez 1:01:10
it's a book called Know Your beholder? I listened to it on Audible.
Patricia Sung 1:01:14
Know Your beholder, okay, Elizabeth.
Elizabeth Brink 1:01:16
It's so hard to decide. So I'm big podcast listener, and I love the podcast, the neurodivergent woman and I also recently have been listening to a couple of different interviews with Dr. Galena Atlas on the trauma in our bodies that are that stem from family secrets. So she was on the meaningful life podcast Dr. Ghali Atlas. And I really loved that.
Patricia Sung 1:01:44
Okay, number two, my most boring about me fact is, Elizabeth.
Elizabeth Brink 1:01:49
I mean, I am just actually really boring.
Patricia Sung 1:01:52
Then you can pick anything.
Elizabeth Brink 1:01:54
I absolutely hate doing dishes. And anytime I do them I ask my husband to cheer for me.
Anna Lopez 1:02:06
Um, I hate pants.
Patricia Sung 1:02:08
Okay, number three. When I'm having a rough day, my go to quote songbook poem, activity, whatever is in
Anna Lopez 1:02:18
YouTube watching spooky stuff.
Patricia Sung 1:02:21
Elizabeth,
Elizabeth Brink 1:02:22
Definitely not that. One when I'm having a rough day I text my sisters.
Patricia Sung 1:02:28
Okay, number four. Don't tell anyone I,
Elizabeth Brink 1:02:32
I really hate showering and brushing my teeth. So I don't do it as frequently as is maybe.
Patricia Sung 1:02:44
Say I'm like, I feel like I need a whole podcast to supplement because that is hard. It's transitions, man. Okay, Anna
Anna Lopez 1:02:50
I also had a shower one, it was pee in the shower. I'm never getting new clients now.
Patricia Sung 1:02:58
No, this is the kind of thing that makes you a real human. And people are like, these are my people like these are the kinds of people I want to talk to. I don't want to tell all my problems to a perfect person.
Elizabeth Brink 1:03:07
Oh my gosh, I should change my answer than. Don't tell anybody that a week ago, I woke up in the early morning like lucid dreaming peeing my bed.
Patricia Sung 1:03:18
Those are the worst dreams.
Elizabeth Brink 1:03:19
Actually was peeing the bed. Yeah, true story.
Patricia Sung 1:03:22
It happens.
Patricia Sung 1:03:23
Okay, number five. If I had a magic fairy wand for one spell, I would not I lost track of who I was on. I'll go to Anna,
Anna Lopez 1:03:31
Manifest or rich benefactor as a husband
Elizabeth Brink 1:03:41
I would never meal prep again would never come.
Patricia Sung 1:03:47
Okay, the last one. Number six. My best piece of advice for mamas with ADHD is Elizabeth.
Elizabeth Brink 1:03:54
Get to know your nervous system and find your local community.
Anna Lopez 1:03:58
Find your people take breaks.
Patricia Sung 1:04:04
Well, thank you so much. I am like there was so much you're saying I was like, I just want to dive into that some more. And I'm like watching the clock. I'm like, nope, gotta keep going. Patricia keep going. But it was so beautiful. Thank you so much for sharing. Just understanding our bodies better and knowing that we can develop that skill, you give us some really great takeaways to practice those in little ways. And lifting that shame that there's still hope. Yeah.
Elizabeth Brink 1:04:31
Thanks for having us.
Anna Lopez 1:04:32
Thanks for having us. It was fun. Yeah.
Elizabeth Brink 1:04:36
All right. Bye, friends.
Patricia Sung 1:04:38
Thanks, y'all. For more resources, classes and community head over to my website. motherhoodinadhd.com