Understanding ADHD in Neurodiverse Kids and Their Parents from the On The Hard Days Podcast with Guest Host Megan Champion - Best of Friends Series #200
Have you ever hated your own child?
While you may not want to say it out loud, sometimes parenting is just. so. hard. that this burning hatred overtakes you in a fiery blaze. And when your child is extra… extra needy, extra sensitive, extra different, extra angry, extra aggressive, extra anything, the usual parenting advice doesn’t work.
Maybe you feel like a failure or a terrible mom.
Meet Megan Champion, who started her podcast as a “regular mom” who needed to know she was not alone struggling to parent her out-of-the-box child. So she shares stories from other “regular” parents, who are navigating out-of-the-box kids. Megan’s vulnerability and openness is refreshing in a world of glossy Instagram photos. We finally got to meet in person in May and she is just as kind and honest in person as she is online, which is a delight!
In this episode, Megan Champion and I chat about Understanding ADHD in Neurodiverse Kids and Their Parents on her podcast, On The Hard Days, where Megan validates the experience of her listeners through story-telling so that they feel seen, heard, and understood. Today, you’re hearing part of my story as both a mom and as someone with ADHD. Megan shares:
Patricia Sung is just the person I needed to talk to. She has ADHD and understands its nuances to a fault. She has her own podcast, Motherhood in ADHD, and is a featured guest speaker in my support group community, Mothers Together. In this episode, she was able to answer so many of my questions. We could've talked for hours longer! Here's just some of the things we discuss:
Postpartum anxiety and the tie to ADHD
The hyper vigilance in recognizing the same diagnosis in our kids as we have
How everyone's ADHD looks different
Building up your ADHD child
Supporting undiagnosed kids by looking for behavioral patterns
Tantrums vs. meltdowns
ADHD and setting parental boundaries
Be sure to subscribe to the On The Hard Days podcast.
Megan Champion’s website: www.ontheharddays.com
Megan Champion’s instagram: @on.the.hard.days
While I’m slowing down for the summer, making space for more family time and accounting for our emergency construction project, I simply couldn’t leave you hanging for the next few weeks. And my ADHD brain didn’t want to do another vanilla Best Of series… Cue Light Bulb!
Welcome to the Best Of Friends Series, where you are meeting a few of my favorite friends in the podcast community. I’m sharing interviews that I have done on other friends’ podcasts. Not only do you get a new episode, I hope that you’ll find a few shows to add to your podcast queue. There’s a wide variety of topics coming your way, so keep an eye out for a new friend each week of the summer.
You’re not alone.
“This is a chance to invest in yourself and build a community that will empower your future. Worth it!” –ADHD Mama D.B.
Our annual ADHD Moms Luxury Weekend Retreat is coming up October 6-8, 2023 in Houston, Texas! And we hope you’re coming, too!
I’ll take care of all the details - you simply show up and enjoy.
Put it on your calendar now.
Having a circle of moms who support you and believe in you matters. Register for your all-inclusive ticket here: https://www.patriciasung.com/adhd-mom-retreat
Patricia Sung 00:02
Are you overwhelmed by motherhood and barely keeping your head above water? Are you confused and frustrated by how all the other moms make it look so easy. You can figure out how to manage the chaos in your mind, your home, or your family. I get your mama, parenting with ADHD is hard. Here is your permission slip to let go of the Pinterest worthy visions of organization and structure fit for everyone else. Let's do life like our brains do life creatively, lovingly, and with all our might. When we embrace who we are and how our brains work, we can figure out how to live our lives successfully, and in turn, lead our families well, at the end of the day, we just want to be good moms. but spoiler alert, you are already a great mom. ADHD does not mean you're doomed to be a hot mess. Mama, you can rewrite your story from shame spiral to success story. And I'll be right here beside you to cheer you on. Welcome to motherhood in ADHD. Hey there successful mama, it's your friend Patricia Sung. Welcome to our summer best of friends series. Now over the summer, I'm going to be taking a break to slow down a little bit hanging out more with my kids. I'm also managing and like why am I seeing slowing down there is no slowing down, I just have to reshift priorities here, hanging out my kids dealing with all of the construction project that's been going on. It has been a lot this spring. And I realized like I gotta let up this summer, in order to be able to do all the things, shifting some stuff around. So it's like how do I still deliver great content, but also like, not just do the same old, same old because Hello, ADHD. So here's what we're doing, I am going to be sharing some friends with you. So while I will sprinkle in a couple of episodes from my own podcast, I chose some of the ones that were like the most popular downloads in the last few months. But I think that they are the most popular downloaded episodes because they cover a lot of the like basic things that we need to know about our ADHD. And we could use a little reminder sometimes of just the basic things. But I'm more excited about introducing you to some of my friends, I have asked several of my podcasting friends to share the interview that I did on their podcast, so that you can get to know not only you still get to hear from me about ADHD, and whatever they're like podcast is focusing on but that I want you to be able to meet some other really great podcast host. Most of these are women. Most of these are moms who are doing great things in the world. And I love what they're doing. I want to support them. And I want you to have really great podcasts in your feed that are they're supporting you and showing you who you can be and like bringing more light and wonderfulness and fun to your summer as you are doing your mom thing and trying to juggle all the things. So welcome to the best of series. And let's dive into today's episode. Now this episode is quite the deviation from the norm, you don't normally get business coach Patricia. But that's what you got today. And even though this episode is from 2021 It has a wealth of business knowledge in here. And bear with me because this is a live episode. So you got all of the liveness right in there. Today, I'd like you to meet my friend Megan. Megan Champion is the host of the on the hard days podcast where she is helping parents of neurodivergent kids have community and understand like, you're not the only one. Like the advice that works for everybody else doesn't work for you. Yeah, like come on. Let's create that community together. She also holds a special place in my heart because she too as a former teacher, and her mission is to help parents who are struggling with neurodiverse kids to feel seen and heard and understood because her podcast is all about conversations with mostly moms, but also a few dads and just talking to like every day moms about what's going on what the struggles are having a place to share and know you're not alone. You know, which is kind of my thing around here too. I was lucky enough to meet Megan at mom 2.0 in May. And let me tell you that she is just as genuine and kind and wonderful in person as she appears on social media, which is a rare breed. So please go subscribe to the Hard Day's podcast. And let's jump into a conversation with Megan about how we can understand our neurodiverse kids a little bit better.
Megan Champion 05:00
It takes a village to raise a child. We all know that right? But what happens if you can't find your village? Because raising your child is really, really tough? What if you were so filled with shame, and doubt, and guilt, and fear of judgment, that you don't share your triumphs and your struggles, you don't talk about it because you don't think anyone can possibly relate? Well, I've been there. And it was really hard for me to find my tribe. So I decided to make, I went out and found these amazing mothers who are also in the trenches, struggling to raise their kids. Together, we are a community. And in this podcast, on the hard days, you'll find motivating stories from other real moms who get it. We're going to accept who we are, and how we show up for our children each and every day, even on the hard days. Welcome back, everybody. I'm super, super pumped for this conversation. I've been waiting a while for it. I have with me, Patricia Sung. And she is the host of the motherhood and ADHD podcast for specifically for moms who have ADHD. She's also a former teacher. And so she kind of considers herself an ADHD educator. And this is what I need right now. This she is an answer to my prayers today. Because this is something that I have so many questions about when trying to meet the needs of neurodiverse kids who have ADHD. So Patricia, first of all, thank you so much for being here.
Patricia Sung 06:33
Thanks for having me. I'm so excited. And we've been trying to get this schedule. You know, summer schedules are what they are. So I'm excited.
Megan Champion 06:39
Yeah, we went back and forth for for quite some time. So I'm just I'm so grateful that we were able to make it work. So tell us about you and your background.
Patricia Sung 06:49
Oh, well. So before I had my kids, I had late elementary and middle school, I also taught at your high school, not my thing. And when I had my boys, I decided to stay home. And as a mom who has ADHD, like I was diagnosed at about 20 is in college. And so I didn't know I had it all growing up. But the signs were clearly there, I have inattentive type. And when I got to college, just the doodoo hit the fan, it was a mess. I went from being this honor roll student, you know, Officer of all the clubs, doing all the things. And then I got to college, and it literally just fell apart. And so that's how I end up getting diagnosed. Thankfully, I was really blessed on having a doctor who understood it. I mean, looking back now I'm pretty sure she had it herself. And she directed me to all the right places and got me the right diagnosis and the student services that I needed. And that's how I was able to graduate, because at that point, but this is when you usually see ADHD show up, especially in those of us who have inattentive type, which is especially females is that, you know, we figured out how to make it work all this time. And then when you have some kind of big transition, whether that's a hormone transition, or a life transition, all of a sudden, you're thrown in this, like, you know, mixing bowl, and what you were doing before didn't work, which is what happened to me when I got to college. So that's how I ended up being diagnosed. And then I figured out how to make it work. I was doing great. Well, I was single. And while I was married, it was like, you know, if they're trying to get used to being in a partnership and working with another person. But then when I had my kids, and you get all the hormones of pregnancy and postpartum and then all of a sudden you're now responsible for I mean, so many more things. And that's when the doodoo hit fan again. And I was just falling apart. And I'm on Google searching like, where do I find help for ADHD moms? And there was literally like, two articles, one on scary mommy and one somewhere else. And that's all I could find. And I know like, I'm like, there are millions of us out here. How is it that I can't find anything to help me, let alone all the moms who don't even know they have this and are struggling. And so I just kind of like tucked it away. And then after I had my second he was probably he was it was not even a year old. And God put on my heart of like, I want you to start a podcast for moms who have ADHD. And I flat out said, Lord, you have lost Orion. And I'm not doing it. I'm an introvert. I don't know how to podcast. Nor did I wasn't even like a podcast listener like I had to listen to a few but it wasn't even my thing. And I spent my entire life hiding it and trying to be like everybody else. And now you want to put it on the internet, like you have lost your mind. But then, I mean very clearly it was like, well, if not you then who you have the ability to explain this, you're a teacher, you, you have the capabilities of explaining this and in a way that people can understand. And unfortunately, like when you tell people you have ADHD, they immediately take you down a notch, and they have less respect for you. So to lead with that is hard like that is. So for the people who know me, they're like, Oh, I didn't, I didn't know that. What do you mean, you have that. But for the people who don't know me, and they start out with, oh, this is Patricia, who has ADHD, and they have that filter, they immediately assume that I am stupid, and disorganized and lazy, and all the things that come with that. So it was like a huge wrestling match, to figure out like, Can I can I live that out? Can I do that? Which clearly, I listened and figured it out? And yes, that was a very lengthy answer to how did I end up here is that God made me and I listen.
Megan Champion 11:17
No, I think, I think you've touched on so many important things. And I feel as well with my own podcast, I was not a podcast listener before I started my neither my husband was and he was like, You should totally start a podcast and like, that's why like, Who on earth would listen to that? But But you like, just like you said, you start to, you start to feel that that pull, because you know, you start to realize quickly that that you're filling a space that nobody else has filled. And that's how I feel as well, same thing. And I think that it's so important that that we do what we're doing was sharing, just bringing to light, the struggles that mothers are facing for many different reasons. And so teaming up like this between the two of us is extra special. For that reason, I want to ask you, a whole bunch of things. But first of all, when you when you know what hit the fan a couple times in your life that you mentioned. Do you mind describing that for us? Like what did that look like? What What were the struggles specifically that you had that you were like, Okay, what is going on? And I think I need help?
Patricia Sung 12:21
Oh, that's a good question. I think I think the main like, overarching theme is just overwhelmed. So overwhelmed with how, okay, and I'm probably gonna get teary and when I started, like, so good, my friends, the the overwhelm is so big, and it is so hard to explain to other people. It's hard to piece out where do I even start because it is so big and so entangled, it's almost like, you know, when you if your jewelry box gets all tangled up, and you get all the necklaces in there, and it's so tangled that you're like, I don't even know where to start with this. And yet, it's choking me, like, like, imagine that necklace mess around your neck. I mean, like, I, I'm having trouble seeing it, because it's so close to me. It's all tangled up, and you have all these like bumps that get caught on each other. So as you're trying to pull them apart, they're they're catching on each other, and you start pulling on one thing, and it creates a bigger mess over here. And it's so big, and so hefty and so weighty that you don't even know where to begin. And like to put that in a more practical sense. Like when I think back to like when I had my voice. When you have ADHD, you're far more likely to have other comorbidities, which I think is like the worst word ever, but it's basically just other things come with it like ADHD rarely comes by itself. It has lots of friends, and they're pretty crappy friends. So if you have ADHD, you also probably have anxiety or depression or some other kind of mental issues. You probably have dyslexia or dysgraphia you have like this, it comes with so many things, especially in addiction and all the like the domino effect of it. Like before I was like, am I gonna have a little tangent here, but ADHD is the root when someone has it, it is like the tree and you have all these branches and you have the like the most emotional dysregulation, you have the energy dysregulation, you have the anxiety and the depression. You have all these problems because you have ADHD when you're not treating the root. It doesn't matter how much you prune all the branches. Yeah, it might look okay, but that route is not healthy. And that is the driver for all the other problems. So so many women don't get diagnosed with ADHD they get diagnosed with depression or anxiety, and they have suicidal thoughts and all these things, but it's because they don't know that why they don't know what the problem is, they don't know the root. And when you treat the root, a lot of those other things not to say they go away, but you're going to be a lot less anxious, if you realize all those spinning thoughts are because you have ADHD, your your depression is going to get better because you realize, okay, I have options. And there's ways that I can be successful given the situation that I'm in. And you can make different choices based on the root problem. But if you're just over here trying to feel better, quote, unquote, you're never going to feel better because you didn't fix the root of the problem. So going back to the original question, how I saw that in my motherhood was, I had postpartum anxiety, which I actually was not familiar with, I'd heard of postpartum depression, but I hadn't heard of postpartum anxiety. So I was having. I mean, like, just overwhelming. Like, I actually had a panic attack for the first time I had never had before, I didn't even know like, I had no idea what they felt like the the suffocation and the panic that goes in that. And then I was having intrusive thoughts. So I was convinced I was going to hurt my child somehow, because I'm thinking, there's something wrong with me, I'm not going to be a good mom, I'm going to somehow mess up my kid. And then trying to keep up with, like, all the stuff that comes with motherhood, like you're responsible for this human now. And how, how do you keep up with all that? It's like, now you're trying to do you have doctor's appointments that you have to keep up with in trying to remember all the things and you're not sleeping well. And people with ADHD tend to have horrible sleep issues. So you're not sleeping, which is making your ADHD worse. And you're having more trouble with your memory and keeping up with everything because you're getting these like tiny stints of sleep. And you're on this, I call it like the evil Groundhog Day, because it's not just like the 24 hour cycle that Bill Murray was doing. But like a three hour cycle when you have a newborn right, like, feed easily diaper. It just keeps going. Well, you're in this little cycle and you you're like, Wait, when did I feed the baby last? Did I did I not change the diaper and then you start doubting yourself because you're having trouble remembering when you did all the things. So then you either turn into like laksa days ago, like wow, bear it out, or you turn into like crazy perfectionist. Like, let me get out my app and track all the things. And and it was, it was isolating. Because I felt like I was the only one who hated being a mom. Like I flat out thought it was awful. At two weeks postpartum, I looked at my husband and it was like, Can you Can we please give this baby back? I don't want this life anymore. Like I want my old life back where where I enjoyed it. And here I am like, I feel like I'm a horrible person. I'm a horrible mom. And everyone's like, Yay, aren't you so excited? Like, I remember this lady was like, Don't you understand how now you feel like your heart is outside of your body. And I was like, No, I don't have any connection with this blob of a human that is sucking the life out of me. And I mean, granted, like, I had a really rough pregnancy, I vomited the entire nine months in here, I was thinking like, the end is near and it's gonna be so great. I'm gonna get this little baby and it's gonna be awesome. And instead, I was met with like, all the postpartum and the hormones. And it was just like, wow, this is not what I pictured. And especially having been a teacher, I thought like, I'm the oldest of five kids, I was like, I'm going to be so great at this, it's going to be awesome. And it wasn't, it was awful. I hated the first few months of being a mom. And it's so isolating when you feel like you're the only one who feels that because everyone else is like, coming over with their like, you know, booing and eyeing, and here you are like, this sucks, and I want to get this baby back. And to not be able to say that out loud. Is what is makes you feel like you're alone and you're an awful person for not wanting your kid. And, like part of why I share those things is I want moms to know like, that is normal. Your hormones are like literally like, level 57. all out of whack. Like it's not necessarily you. It's the situation. And when you have ADHD, our hormones affect us in such a different way. That's why you see when kids are going through like puberty, you'll see a lot of kids who get diagnosed in middle school, because when you're born Wanna start kicking in, that's when all of you know, all those changes are creating, they're highlighting what was already there. And I want moms to know that like, that is normal, there's nothing wrong with you, you are not broken, you're not alone. And if someone's not willing to say, Hey, I've been there, and it was awful, and like, it will get better at some point, maybe not tomorrow, but there are things you can do, and there's help out there and there's community, then you can start to move forward. But when you're sitting there all alone, feeling like you're the only person who's, you know, this awful human who doesn't want their kid anymore, then you're not ever going to like, move forward, and you're, it's not going to get better, because you're not, you don't have any support, you know, how many help. So we have to be able to have that safe place to say, here's how I feel, because there are plenty of people that you should not say that too, because they're going to judge you and they're going to like call CPS on you. And that's not what you need. What you need is a support to be like, friend, this is normal. This is part of being a mom. They don't tell you this ahead of time, because then you wouldn't have any kids. But like this, it's okay, it's not you, you're not going to hurt your kid. Let's find your counselor, let's find you a therapist, let's get you a support group. Let's get you the tools that you need, so that you're not sitting there alone by yourself.
Megan Champion 21:33
So good and so powerful. Yeah, no, I think I think everything that you said is so powerful and true. And I feel something similar, except obviously a slightly different topic. But it's that same idea. And raising my, my kids, especially my really neurodiverse child, and that isolated alone feeling like nobody understands and I, I don't think I struggled with the post I dwell on. That's not true. I have postpartum rage, which another beast of that but, but as my son's issues started to really take place. And I felt so alone. And really like literally, I couldn't tell anybody about how difficult my child was, because it was just going to come back on what I was doing wrong. As a mother, I started I often had those feelings like, you know, he's so cute. But on the other hand, like what why? Why do I Why am I kid? Why me? Why does my kid have to struggle? So so much? There's no similar thoughts. And I think just motherhood in general, does not society does not allow for that sort of thought process to go on. And so you exposing that is so good, and important work to do. Now, when you had those postpartum anxiety stuff, how did you connect that to ADHD? As a mom? Like, what was the link there? Where it took you from postpartum anxiety to now it's like, Okay, now, I'm really settling into being a mom with ADHD.
Patricia Sung 23:01
I think it's, I mean, I there wasn't necessarily like a definitive line. I think when you're struggling that hard, you have to put out whatever is most on fire first, like I was explaining earlier, like, yes, you do have to deal with that root issue. But if one of the branches on fire, you can't just leave the branch to burn it will take down the entire tree. So you do have to deal with like, if you're dealing with postpartum issues, or like, you know, you have some kind of tragedy in the family and you have grief or whatever big thing is going on, you do have to deal with that first, because you can't treat everything else when something's on fire. But in the way that I was able to move forward is that I was very lucky to have a wonderful friend who had talked to me while I was pregnant and said, and she had postpartum depression. So since she had explained to me like, what that felt like and, and what she was dealing with, and she had found a really great therapist and a psychiatrist and she's like, I'm doing better now. But she felt the inner heart of like, she would tell other moms and explain to them like this is a possibility. And if you feel like that, like there's help there. So when even though I didn't have postpartum depression, so much, I at least was able to recognize at some point like oh, this is something that I can get help with. And I was able to see a psychiatrist and and I like I try to tell pregnant moms when he can like, find somebody ahead of times if you need them you're already notable because obviously when you're in that place, trying the thought of like trying to sort through and find a doctor when you're like, trying to feed a baby and stay alive, like that's a very overwhelming, so in plus, you know, they usually have weight so by the time I actually put I admitted, this is a problem, and I need help. And then finding someone who I could see, you know, was the right person for me and you're sifting through insurance and all, I can actually see somebody until it's probably like six weeks postpartum, which is not ideal. So once I was able to get that part under control, then in speaking with my psychiatrist, she was like, Okay, well, now, you know, I let me back up a little bit. I took medicine for my AC in college, but I was not very well educated about it. I didn't really understand how it worked. And I wouldn't recommend doing the methods that I did. And then I was not using medication all the way until after I had my boys. And then I realized, like, I do want to have extra help. So in the process, we sorted out some medicine and got me back on track. And that's when I was realizing like, Okay, this is bigger than I realized. Like, I think that's one of the hard parts of being diagnosed with ADHD is, I mean, a lot of people will say, like, Wow, that's so great. You've known so long, and I'm like, Yeah, but you know what, this was the year 2000. And people did not know what they know now. And they didn't explain it, in the way that they explain it. Now, the tools were not there. Like, it wasn't necessarily like that significant of a, like advantage. Like, the knowledge we have now is not the knowledge we have, then the tools we have now are not the tools that we had done. And being able to, like, Well, I'm glad I already knew I had ADHD, I definitely was not equipped in the way that I am now without my oldest is now six and a half. So you know, I've had the last six years I have deeply delved into understanding my brain and what works for me and understanding how ADHD works. So while I spent 20 years working on it, I didn't own it until the last six years. And that's when once I figured out like, Okay, this is how my brain works. This is what I need. And it's not what most other people need. It's not what's going to work for everybody else. That's when I really could turn around and say, Okay, now I need to work on this part of me and figure out what it is that how do you live well with ADHD as a mom, in the year, you know, 2021, it's different.
Megan Champion 27:33
Yeah. And years ago, I searched for a group of mothers who might understand what I was going through and raising my out of the box kid and I came up empty handed. Instead of strengthening my resolve and digging deeper, I gave up and came to the conclusion, the group doesn't exist because I'm doing something wrong. Those feelings of shame, guilt, and doubt, stayed with me for years, eventually leading me to create the support group community I wished I always had, which then led to instant friendships. These are mothers who don't need you to explain it, they get it. And now, my support group community mothers together is thriving. We hold small group personalized virtual meetings weekly, and catch up on our struggles and wins over the last week. We leave resources and questions for each other on our off of social media private forum. And we even attend virtual live Q and A's with expert therapists, OTs, educators, and more. If you haven't yet found your people who not only understand what you're going through, but also can completely relate mothers together is for you. If you're looking for lifelong friendships, in a judgment, free personalized space for weeks, months or years to come, mothers together is for you. Mothers together opens its doors on the first of every month, but sign up start the week before, head on over to on the hard days.com/mothers together to get more information, read testimonials, and sign up. Still have questions after you check out the page. Send me an email at on the hard days@gmail.com or DM me on Facebook or Instagram. And I'd be happy to chat with you personally. I don't want you to ever feel the way that I felt which was alone anxious and depressed. Your people do exist. They're looking for you too. And you'll find them in mothers together visit ontheharddays.com for more. Now back to the episode. I'm wondering about that. First of all your before I get into that your your boys are you said six and a half. And so yeah,
Patricia Sung 29:43
six and a half and you don't just turn four and four. Yeah.
Megan Champion 29:46
Are you paying attention? Like hyper vigilant on seeing signs of ADHD and your kids?
Patricia Sung 29:54
Yeah, that was one thing. I mean, I was so worried about when I I feel like with my oldest, I was literally like putting him under a microscope and being like, was that it? Was that it? Did that happen? What could that be assigned? And I would say, my advice to moms would be like, don't stress about it, because it's either there or it's not. This is the way that we were born and stressing out about it and worrying about it does not change your kid. So there's no point like, there's no point in me being that worried about it, because it's not like I caused it, or I mean, I mean, technically the gamma gene, slower per hour, you know, but it's like, it's not because I parented a certain way or because I, you know, waited too long, between feedings or something like that. There's nothing that we do that causes this, like, this is the way that our brains are created. This is the way that we were born, and it's going to be there. My guess would be that both my boys haven't. We haven't gone through the formal diagnosis process. But I mean, I know my people, I can spot them in the grocery store, I can, you know,
Megan Champion 31:05
well, that's actually I want to know about that. But you just said something. And I want to make sure I comment on it. And you said, you know, this is not your fault. This is you're born with this has nothing to do with the way you parent. And I was like, like, my, my little light bulbs went off in my head because it has taken us My son is eight. And he never received an ADHD diagnosis. But the behaviors and the meltdowns and the anger and all the things just have been around since he was a baby. And finally, my pediatrician was like, Okay, sounds like it's time for medication. And long story short, he's taking ADHD medication, it has completely changed him. So I'm going to go ahead and say that he has ADHD. And we are more than 100% sure that my husband is undiagnosed ADHD. And now I'm starting to think that my daughter and my youngest son also ADHD, but, but when it comes to the whole blaming mothers thing, you might see a child and obviously, I know, there's the hyperactivity, there's inattentiveness, there's the combined, there's all these different pieces to it. But we judge so easily when we see a child, quote unquote misbehaving. Or, as a teacher, you know, you've got that kid who can't sit still and is up and out of the seat and never raising their hand and their mouths just going and and there's, it's so hard, because maybe is it possible that sometimes tough behaviors that we see from children are due to? You know, I don't know not, not parenting? Well, like, I don't want to say that because who parents well, like?
Patricia Sung 32:50
I guess, yeah, let me do my disclaimer, is that ADHD is a neurological medical condition. This is the way that our brains were created. And there's nothing you can do to make your brain a different way. In terms of like, yes, there are some people that have ADHD because they were in a car accident or had some kind of head injury. But generally speaking, this is the way we were born. Now. Keep in mind that the way that you treat your child, the way that you implement heroin, or this like the way that you help them, or the way that you support them, or the way that you are giving them consequences, all of those things will help or exacerbate symptoms, but it's not changing the fact that I have ADHD. But like, if you feed me a bunch of sugar, you better bet your rear, it's gonna be a hot mess. If I don't get enough sleep, watch out. Like, there are things that I know if I don't take good care of myself. Or I don't make sure that my kids go to bed on time there will be held to pay in the morning. So does do my actions as a parent affect my child? Oh, heck, yes, they do. But it's not like it doesn't indicate the condition. You're, you're just sending like on a different path of like, are we going to set this child up for success? Or are we setting them up to like, have horrible self worth and need therapy the rest of their lives? Well, you know, what, we probably only therapy. But, you know, like there's our actions as a parent are extremely influential. They're not causing a medical diagnosis, they are making a difference in does this look successful or is this detrimental to your child?
Megan Champion 34:43
So with that being said, Then how should I because help I need help waving the flag like help me. How should I support my children and my husband in This journey of ADHD in our home, it looks different for each kid. It looks different for my husband. And I am a recovering perfectionist sort of type A teacher, you know, the teacher stereotype of a teacher? Yep. Introvert as well. And, you know, organized and I got my own issues, but ADHD is not one of them. I am recovering from always thinking about, why can't my husband just why can't my son just now I'm on to my daughter, who is the newest one that I'm thinking about a lot. Why can't she just and removing that? Okay, all right, I see. It's not what I thought. I've been trying to, quote unquote, change them that's not working. So I'm ready to accept arms are open. What do I do? What do I do in my parenting in my motherhood? To support my kids in this? Do you know what I mean? Like, what would you recommend? For moms who don't have ADHD? Or I suppose you and if they
Patricia Sung 36:05
do, yeah, so I guess first, I like what you said, you're saying, everybody's ADHD is different. I always call it like, the marinara sauce. Yes, everyone who has ADHD has the marinara sauce, have, they have tomatoes? They probably have some kind of protein meat don't have to. And you're gonna have kind of the same flavor profile. But everyone's different. If you ask 10 Italian grandmas, how to make the right marinara, you're gonna have 10 different answers. And they all think theirs is the right one. So when you look at everyone's ADHD, they're all different. They have the same tenants. So you're going to see that executive dysfunction, the emotional regulation issues. You know, I, I really hate the name. Attention Deficit Disorder is not a deficit of attention, it is that I have way too much tension, everything's interesting. It all comes in at the same volume. And there's no prioritization or filter to like, my brain doesn't automatically tell me what's important and what's not. So you know, from if you think about it, like from your kids perspective, like, can you imagine everything coming in at you at volume 10. It's all important. It's all loud. And they're supposed to filter out your voice in the chaos. Imagine it like imagine you're in Times Square, and you're like, let's do some math homework. No, like, it's so loud. How do I tune out the taxis and the moving billboards? And the people and the noise and the lights? Like, how do I tune it all out and focus on what I'm doing? It's all a volume 10 all the time. So everyone's different. But we all have the same, some core items that are the same. So yes, that's one of the hard parts is that everybody's different, Emma's gonna need different things like some people might have a fairly decent working memory, but their emotional regulation is awful. And then other people are like, I can't remember what I said three seconds ago. But you know, what I can usually hold together when somebody makes me angry. It depends over time. Not only just your brain, but what skills you have learned over time, what have you learned is okay, and not okay. Some people have like, for me, I would say like, on the outside, it looks like I have fairly decent emotional regulation, because I learned like, I can't just like, lose my effing mind. And like, that's going to get a harsh judgment from others. So I, but inside, it's still a mess. I'm just not showing it. So I was like, Oh, my God, this is such a big question. I could talk on it for like, 400 years. No, you're you're doing great. It's, it is different for everyone. And that's the hard part is that not everybody is going to need the same thing. When it comes down to learning about like to be successful, I always use my three tenants. The first one is learning about your ADHD or your child's ADHD. So it's not just learning about ADHD as a whole, but understanding them as an individual. What does that look like for them? What do they need? What do they do well in what do they need help with? That's one section, then two is putting on your oxygen mask first, like mom has to take care of herself, you cannot take care of the rest of the family. If you're not taking care of you, you are an integral part of the family. If you are not taking care of you, you're not taking care of the family, you cannot pour from an empty cup. So you have to be sure that you're doing what you need to stay healthy, what you need to be supported, because you can't do all the things First of all, and you can't do them all even halfway well if you're not and then the third part is asking for help and figuring out what it is that you need or your child needs and getting that support for specifically what they need. So number one, learning about not only just ADHD, but the person's specific recipe to making sure that we're taking care of the people as a whole, and then three, finding the right support that they need. And one of the things that like I love what you said was like that, why can't they just do fill in the blank, but just that we're just using that sentence, right? There is one of the things I hate the most. Because whenever we say, why can't you just do this to our child, they don't know why they can't do that they are trying. Like, that is like if, if I can take what like anyone can take away just like one thing from today is that, as hard as it is, as a mother, to take care of your child with these struggles. Imagine how hard it is to actually have the struggles. If you think about the last time that you were going through something hard, like, you know, maybe like lost somebody really important to you, and you're going through that grief stage? Who is it harder for you who lost that person who's really important to you? Or say your spouse who's trying to help you work through that? Who is it harder for? So whatever level of harm you are dealing with, multiply it by 100. And that's what your kids going through. They are not trying to drive you insane. They wish that they could just push the button and be like, I just did exactly what mom asked me to do. Like, there's so many times I have said that I mean, even with my husband, I'm like, if I could have done that, I would like do you know what I would give to be able to just do the thing that I'm trying to do? Like, I cannot put into words how much I wish I could quote unquote, just do something. It is so frustrating when, especially with most people like with ag like we know what we need to do. We might even know how to get there. But to actually like, go down the path is somehow so hard. And there's 43 reasons why. But understand that your kid is not doing it on purpose, they are not trying to drive you insane. They are not trying to purposely disobey you like they are struggling. And whatever you can do to support them matters. Every little bit that you're doing matters. Even when you feel like you're being a totally crappy mom. It matters, like the fact that they see you trying to do what's best for them, it matters, they see that even if they don't fully understand it, even when they're only like, you know, three and four years old, and they don't fully understand what's going on. Like they see your body language and your and they feel your words just as much as they hear them. And like not to say that you shouldn't feel frustrated, like Yeah, I it drives me insane when I have told my kids 16 times to put their shoes on. And they're like over out in my field. But we have to figure out a way and like this is on us as moms is how do we balance supporting our kids, but also finding a healthy way to support ourselves when we're ready to be like, I literally just want to throw you out the window, you're driving me insane. Like, we that's why we have to take care of ourselves. Because I'm not saying it's not frustrating. I'm not saying it's not hard. It is hard. But I think one of the hardest parts about having ADHD is that you feel most of the time, like you're the one that's broken, and you're the one who can't get it together and you're the one who's carrying that burden. And you don't know what to do about it. So is like it is on us as moms to pour in, like for every time like you get frustrated at them and yell at them so it's going to happen. Is that okay? What can I do to repair that? What can I do to build them up? What can I do to show them how they're an amazing kiddo that has whatever they're like amazing skills aren't How do I reinforce that? Because the rest of the world is looking at them and saying that kid in the grocery store isn't listening isn't misbehaving like kids notice. They know when that already in the grocery stores given them aside, I they know. So it's like we're carrying extra weight of pulling even more. I don't just say positivity because it's not about like toxic positivity, but like building them up. For every time they get knocked down. We need to help them find ways to build up and it's and it also can't be solely on us. Like we have to teach them the skills for them feel to do it themselves. They we've got to put them in activities where they can excel, we have to find places where they are welcome and they are treated with dignity and respect so that they can feel successful because there are going to be so many times when they don't. And that's to me one of the hardest parts of having ADHD is not letting myself self worth be it determined by my failures?
Megan Champion 45:04
Mm hmm. That was really good. That was really powerful. I jotted a few things down. Because what you're saying rings true in my head. I hear you. A lot of when you were talking actually, before was making me think of my husband. And my kids aren't even. I mean, they're still young. But he says, he's a very jokey guy. And he often comes in defense mechanisms. Totally, totally, totally. And he quotes movies, and he quotes songs randomly, and it just comes out all the time, his whole life. I've been with him for a very long time. And he'll often you know, come come home after work or something. And he just starts spewing off this or this or this or this, and I will laugh and, and he'll say, Yeah, my filter, like is your filter on and he's like, this is on. I'm, I'm 97% of what's in my head right now. You don't even hear. I'm just letting out little bits. And I'm going oh my gosh, that's, that's a lot of noise. And I being I'm like, sensory processing with sound. I noise drives me bonkers. So, gosh, we're two peas in a pod. I'm trying. Luckily, there's a lot of laughter and joking around it. But I see that big time. So what about for mothers who are listening who have children who are undiagnosed? So they don't know that it's ADHD? But everything you're describing is like, well, well, it could be how do you then know? If it is quote, unquote, you know, challenging behavior? or ADHD? How do you know? Because if we know our kids have ADHD, look, my son just started medication for it. If I had known this about him, years ago, I wonder if I would have come up from a totally different angle, have more empathy, which should have been there, but it wasn't. Unless, why can't you? So what about these moms whose kids are not diagnosed right now? How do they know if they're supposed to support or lay down the law so to speak? Do you know what I mean?
Patricia Sung 47:12
Yeah, it's it. I mean, I think that's one of the like, the the mysteries of motherhood of like, how do we turn our kids into great people and find that balance between support and, and boundaries? And it really takes looking at your child and studying them almost like a science experiment. Mama, are you ready to get away, You are cordially invited to this year's annual retreat. Our successful as a mother luxury weekend getaway retreat conference amazingness that is happening this October. This is a chance for you to get away and take a break and truly rest for you to learn about your brain in a way that makes sense for you. And most importantly, know that you are not alone and have a real life community of moms who get you we are staying at a beautiful four star hotel. This is an all inclusive event, which means I will handle everything for you. Once you arrive, I take care of your hotel, I take care of your meals that you neither cooked nor cleaned up, nor cut anybody else's food up that you truly get to have a weekend where you take care of you because you deserve rest. You deserve to be taken care of. And I'm gonna do that for you at this retreat. So I invite you to go ahead and grab your ticket at Patriciasung.com/ADHD-mom-retreat Grab your ticket and let's hang out in person. I cannot wait to meet you. What like one of the things we did we met with I don't know if you follow her. I just adore her doctor and Louise Lockhart. We met with her as a parent coach. She's on Instagram if you want to follow her. So we met with her as a parent coach, not as it because she also does. I'm pretty sure she's a psychiatrist. She may be a psychologist, but I think she's a psychiatrist, not 100% her you know, she sees patients as a as a doctor, but she also does parent coaching. And you can't you can't do both like you either have to be one way or the other. And she had us fill out this chart basically of like when my we weren't really struggling when my younger one was like, probably about like two or three. He was just having a lot of meltdowns. And this chart had like, explained we had to write down like we'd do our homework when he was having a meltdown. It was like, here's the date and the time. Here's who was there. Here's what happened beforehand. Here's what the trigger was. Here's what we did. Was there anything like any kind of Like obvious, like AHA things. And we did this homework for like, two weeks of writing down anytime we had a meltdown. And then we were able to go back and see the pattern. And it was anytime he was extremely tired, or hungry, which also isn't. That's when I am tired or
Megan Champion 50:22
same, but that's my son, that is my son. And when
Patricia Sung 50:25
once you saw like, oh, okay, well, that's something I can fix. Like, when we would go through the preschool drop off, like pick out or sorry, pickup line, like, I would just literally hand him a granola bar, and I wouldn't wait to get him home to eat. Or, like, if I knew we had to run an errand, I can delay with a little snack, or it was like Beeline home, because otherwise he was going to have a meltdown. In between school in the house, we live literally like three minutes from the preschool. Excuse me. So that's an easy thing, I just need to hand you a snack until we can get to lunch, or no joke, I have alarm set on my phone that at 1030, my kids need a snack. Because if we get all the way to lunch, and they haven't eaten, it is meltdown city trying to get through lunch. So that's where I as a parent can solve that issue. It's not that my kid doesn't want to eat lunch, it's that I waited too long to give them food, I am in charge of the food. Two year olds are not in charge of food. So that's on me, I can make sure that that doesn't happen. Also making sure that we have to nap on time. And granted, he's not napping. Now he's four. But, um, you know, making sure that we are I'm a little bit regimented about schedules, because I know that my kids don't do well, if they are hungry or tired. It doesn't necessarily matter what time it happened. It matters what the the lapse of time is like, it doesn't matter that we didn't eat exactly at 1202. But it matters that we haven't eaten in five hours. So we need some, some, you know, something for our blood sugar. So in that way, when you study your child like a science experiment, you can start to see the patterns and you will see is it something that's in their control, or not in their control? Because him being tired and hungry is not in his control that's on me as the grownup. Whereas if you go through the pattern, and you look at all and it's like, well, I noticed that all of these meltdowns are having happening when they're not getting what they want, or like some kind of like choice on them, then that's what Okay, now I need behavior strategies. Now I need to figure out what's the strategy where my kid will do better in this situation. And that's when boundaries and consequences matter more. So that would be my advice is that when you gather that data, which again, when you have ADHD is like, Oh, my goodness, now I gotta write stuff down. Are you kidding me. But you know, when it's, when it's a big enough problem, you will remember to write the thing down. So I printed out the thing I had a sitting on the kitchen table. So I saw it every day. I was sure when or when that problem happened, because it was a problem when that tantrum happened. And I've also since learned the difference between a tantrum and a meltdown. I didn't realize the difference. That's an important thing. Tantrum versus meltdown. Meltdown is when your kid like literally just can't handle things. And they are like, think about melting down. Like they are withering from the core and they cannot handle things. A tantrum is when they're mad, they're not getting what they want. That is part of life. And we do need to teach our kids how to work through those things. But that's two different things. So when you determine whether a kid is having tantrums or meltdowns, then you know what action we need to do. And like we were saying, like, Should we be laying down the law? Yes and no. We need to lay down the boundaries. Our kids need that consistency. They need to know what is okay and what's not okay, like that's part of us, making them in helping them not making them helping them turn into like, a nice human being is them understanding where the boundaries are laying down the law. Generally is not what ADHD kids need. A lot of them have oppositional defiance disorders where like, you can't tell me what to do. And whatever you said, like in that way, like again, now that's on me, how do I get my kid to do something when they're not going to do it? If I told them to do it, there are strategies for that of working with those behaviors. It's not necessarily my area of expertise, but I've got some so I won't go like too far down that tangent but the There are what works for 90 to 95% of kids is lovely. And that is not what you need if your kid has ADHD. So throw all those books in the trash, and find someone who understands your kid. We are not like most other people, and that is okay. But we have to find the systems that work for us, not what works for everyone else. So yes, what works for the other nine kids nearby? Lovely for them, I have the one at a time that's not going to work for. So don't go ask your friend with the angel what they do, because the angel probably was supposed to be honest, your friend did not make that angel. That is not their wonderful parenting skills, they got a lovely cooperative child, those exist out there. Most of us who are listening this podcast probably didn't get a good or maybe we know on and you know, that's another one and one or the other. But just know that like, don't feel bad because those things didn't work for your kid. Know that they're not for your kid. Like, just like, you know, like my podcast is not for everyone. I can't be everything for everyone. I'm specifically serving moms who have ADHD. So another mom listening is probably listening, who like doesn't have ADHD will listen and be like, Wow, a lot of problems clan, and they're not identifying and like figuring out what, like how this helps them. I'm not speaking to that. I'm speaking to the moms who are like me. So find the people who understand your kid, find a support group of moms who have kids like yours, and ask them what they do. Because there they also might be like, Oh, no, it makes you feel like you're not alone. Whereas if you find the people that understand your kid, that's where you're gonna get advice that's worth trying. And I'm going to make some headway. And like not to say that everything that works for neurotypical kids will not work for neurodiverse kids. I'm not saying that. But I'm saying like, if you're over here, comparing yourself to, you know, Pinterest mom with her chore charts and her sticker charts like, Okay, I won't get on, I won't get on my tangent about sticker charts to kind of hate them. But like, that's not necessarily what's going to work for a kid with ADHD. They don't remember that they were trying to get 10 stickers, they already forgot about the 10 stickers until they walked by it and saw it. They're like, Oh, I really do want that prize. And they'll go do the thing right now because they wanted it. But in 10 minutes, they already forgotten about it again, because they're onto something else. And so while the sticker chart works great for so those kids, what our kids need is something different. They need that visual reminder. So if you're working on something, how do I have not the sticker chart on the thing they might see once a day, where's the visual visual they're gonna see multiple times a day or wherever it is that you're trying to solve that behavior. If you're trying to solve a behavior in the playroom, because siblings keep fighting. What's the visual you put there, don't want it in the kitchen and not fighting in the kitchen and put it in the playroom. This is where you're having the the issue. So it's, it's about figuring out what makes sense for your kid and your family and your situation.
Megan Champion 58:12
You are everything I needed today. And more. Because that's what I'm currently struggling with as a mom. First of all, I come from the teacher background, right. And so it's sticker charts up the wazoo, and it's like, you know, I used that at first. And I cannot tell you the anxiety that that caused my son to have those sorts of charts. Because if he just had one mistake or whatever, one time, instead of finding it motivating, like a neurotypical kid may think I'm just gonna work harder next time. Yeah, right. Total absolute mayhem, because now it wouldn't be perfect. And so forget it. So we've tried that in past years. Again, I feel like I'm just now learning my kids. So let's take something as simple as
Patricia Sung 58:56
Wait, let me stop you there. Because I don't want you to beat yourself up for not knowing what you didn't know, back then. Like, that's not fair for us to do that to ourselves because of what what could we have done that we didn't know? Like, just like, I look back, and I'm like, I didn't when my son was first born, like, I didn't know how to be a mom. I didn't know that what I was going through is normal. And for a long time, I'd be like kicking myself in the butt thinking I'm a horrible person. No, like, what? There's no way I could have done something different given the situation I was in. Because if I could have I would have. So we do have to forgive ourselves for how the past one and what matters now is that now you are listening to this podcast to figure out how your kid works. Like now you are doing the work and you will figure it out and you will make progress. But like I don't want moms to feel like oh, I am such a horrible mom because I didn't know before like Yeah, sure. We all wish that we were better at the beginning but like we were we were just starting out and like think about you know, if you were in a job and it's you know, your first year of teaching and you're like, Oh man, I missed them so much is your first year on the job, you don't know. But when you get, you know farther along, and you're getting to know your son like, figuring out the way that he takes, and when you get in there and like, get into the details of who he is, like, that's where the good stuff is. And you'll figure out what makes sense for him. So like, you're on the right path. And, like, just lean into that, rather than kicking yourself for what happened before because we, we can't change that.
Megan Champion 1:00:36
I appreciate that. And that's, that's true. That's a such thing. Again, there's the recovering like perfectionist mom, when I look at what makes my son tick, and I really analyze it, it's not the same as what makes my daughter and my other son and my husband tick, everybody is so different, like you said, so I feel overwhelmed. And I almost feel like I'm the person responsible for coming up with systems in our home that will work for them. Rather than them coming up with it themselves, or my husband, you know, he's obviously been, this is his whole life. So he's figured out his own little coping things. But like, let's just take something like getting ready for bed, or cleaning up. Those are two hard areas. The the avoidance for my children is severe, I would say. But avoidance can also just be sort of a kid thing to do, because they don't want to go to bed. But this is like, right, my son hyper hyper focuses. I literally the other day, try it. I was like, okay, he needs a timer. Let's try a timer. I put my phone in front of him, like right in front of him as he was. He hyper fixates on building Legos. That's his thing. So much so that he wants to skip meals, and I can't tear him away at bedtime, which leads to countdowns and all these things. So the timer is right in front of him. I tell him the timer is there, I make sure that he knows the timer is there. Okay? He says, No, doesn't see the timer timer goes off? What do you mean, it's time to be done? And what could I have done differently to help him, but that's also something totally different for my daughter, and different from my other son who's more hyperactive. I'm feeling overwhelmed and lost on on helping everybody in my house be successful. So I don't know what I'm asking for from you. But just letting you know that I'm struggling, we
Patricia Sung 1:02:33
know and that's normal, like, you're one person, and you don't have all the answers. And it is not your job to make everybody happy. But that's okay, like, it's not going to be perfect. And it's not your job to make it perfect all the time. It's not. And when we let go of that guilt, and that like weight of the responsibility, it gets a little bit easier. Then it really is like a trial and error you. You don't know, until you give it a try. And that I think that's when the hardest parts about parenting is like there's no instruction manual. And what works for this kid doesn't work for that kid. Even kids are similar. It doesn't necessarily work like it. Yeah, it's frustrating. Like, mostly I shouldn't be like, yes, that is hard. And it is frustrating. And it's a lot. And so where I go from there is like, what's on fire? What part of the day do you need to tackle first, let go of all the other junk. You can only fix one thing at a time, and especially with kids with ADHD, like if you try to change all the things at one time, it's too overwhelming. We can't handle it. I can't handle that. Like that's too much. So just one thing at a time. So what stuck out to me when you were saying about like cleaning up and bedtime is that, um, my husband does this to me, like when he tells like, I'll be working on my podcast, you know, after the kids go to bed. And he'll be like, hey, it's time for bed. And I'm like, oh, yeah, I'm coming. And my brain says that, like, it doesn't register in my mind that like I need to be wrapping up. And part of that onus is on me because I have to be aware that that's an issue. But that also means that I need to do something different. So I'm working really hard on not working on my podcast at night, because it's really hard for me to tear myself away for something that I love so much. So like right before bed is probably not a good time to do Legos, because it's just, it's not a good time. And it's going to cause the meltdown and at that point, everybody's tired. Everybody's grumpy and you know, there's going to be a meltdown. So it's like okay, then we may just have to have a rule that Legos don't happen after dinner. which stinks. But is like what's worse, just doing like those earlier in the day or having the meltdown at bedtime? So like, so I want you to know, like when he says like, Uh huh. There is like a part of our brain that will respond to things. And they don't actually, like, enter the system, if like, they just like floated right on by. And it's not that he's ignoring you it like literally like, it just kind of like, bounced off his head and went out. Like I don't I wish there was like, a way I could explain it. But so what I, what I tell my husband, which he's like, this is ridiculous, I can't believe you're asking me to do this. But it's like, you'd have to like walk over and like, somehow touch them, and their eyes have to meet yours. And you look them in the eye, and you're like, we have to wrap up in just a few minutes. And putting this timer here. When it goes off, we have to finish and you have to tear their eyes away long enough that like, the hyperfocus can like pause to let the information enter, they're gonna be mad about it, I'm gonna be mad about it. Like, don't make me stop this thing I really like doing. But otherwise, it doesn't go in. And like, like, we have to, like tear them away long enough to get that recognition and the eye contact of like, okay, that's not to say that there's they're going to be okay with it in five minutes when the timer goes off. But if we didn't even like if the if the like timer happening didn't register, that makes the meltdown leader worse. Whereas if the timer registers and I'm like, okay, got it, I have five minutes, and then the timer goes off at that point. It's a different kind of interaction, because they know, this was the timer. It's not a surprise. If it's meltdown of a surprise, like, What do you mean, it's time to stop? That's a different interaction, then, Oh, I'm so mad. I really wanted to keep doing this. And the way that we interact with them is different. Because surprise, they feel like almost like Why are you punishing me? I was doing something and I'm, I'm successful at this. Why are you making me stop the thing I'm good at? I'm having fun. I feel good. When I do this. Why are you stopping me from feeling good? That's a different conversation then. But I really wanted to do this thing like it. I don't know if that's making any sense. It's
Megan Champion 1:07:43
no, no. It's in that moment.
Patricia Sung 1:07:48
Like, that becomes more of like a training issue of your kids. No, I heard the timer begin. I heard the timer end. And that's where it's like consistency. And no, like, I'm not going to do two more minute because then they just do women is to women, it's premature to women. And they're like, oh, okay, we need to. So they know what happens is we set the timer, it goes five minutes, then I get another two minutes that you're creating this new habit of now we can do two more or one more, or whatever. And it it just drags it out. So we do have to be very consistent, like kids with ADHD are very black and white, as are the grownups. And so when you tell me that it's a five minute timer, it has to be a five minute timer, it can't be a try. Because a two plus or three like No, it has to be a five minute timer, because I'm always going to push the balance to keep doing the thing that I love doing. So it has to be that consistency of like, if you want to do seven minutes than just say seven minutes, don't do five posts to just say we're gonna do a seven minute timer, and then you have to cut it off every time we do. And I'm guilty of this where I'm like, Okay, fine, one more show. Because I don't feel like getting Yes, we all do it. But we have to remember that, like we're creating the like, we're building those neural pathways for them. So we need them to know like, timer goes off, that's the end or whatever your signal is whether or not it's you know, timer or something else, that that has to be the end. And you're going to have a big fight the first day, the second day, and depending on your ADHD kid, it might be day 17 That you're still having that fight. But what matters is that you're being persistent about it. And that's it. And I always tell like moms with ADHD, like we don't have to be consistent because that's really hard for us. But we do have to be persistent. So if you mess up one day and you do the extra timer, okay. We'll do better tomorrow. And then we stick with it because a lot of times with ADHD you know they always say this like Oh 21 days to build a habit. One that's not true. People do not want to things regularly people people with ADHD need even longer than that. It actually I haven't. Of course I don't remember the exact timing but I think it's something crazy like 40 or 50 days for us to like Hurry that habit when we have ADHD, so, yes, on day 17, you might still be having that meltdown. But know that eventually you will get there. Like, if this is important to you, you have to have that conversation with yourself beforehand or with your spouse of like, is this the boundary we're setting? Okay? Like, we need to know that this is really what we want to do, because it's wrong, we're in it for the long haul, we're gonna have this argument for a while. So you're gonna have to stick with it for a while, like the example I gave us. Like, when we finished dinner, our kids have to clear the table. One of my kids picked it up right away. He knows as soon as he's finished, he cleans up and he's on his way. The other one, I kid you not. We had arguments about clearing the table, I feel like it was like four or five months. Every day, I don't want to clean my dishes. You know, like in the whole thing, like, this is the expectation. You have to clean up after yourself. That's part of contributing to the family. So we're picking up the dishes, and it was so long to cook. But we got there eventually. Are there days where he still runs off before he does it? Sure. But I don't pick up that plate. Hey, you need to come back here. Clear your dishes. You can do other fun things. Until you get this done. And we have to just keep pushing through keep pushing through. And yes. In your house, you might be like, well, you know what, that is not worth the six month battle. I'm out. But something else might be worth that six month battle. So you have to figure out what makes sense for your family to
Megan Champion 1:11:39
Oh my goodness. Wow. Wow. Okay, so in the cleaning up example, what the timer? You said it's gonna look different. When the timer if I've gotten through to him, and he sees the timer, and here's the timer, and he knows it's time. And he? And now it's a meltdown? Or maybe it's a tantrum? What do I do with that? Is that just quote unquote, like typical kid behavior of defiance? Or is there something that I should keep in mind on how to handle that second part of actually getting up and walking away?
Patricia Sung 1:12:18
Again, it's a real, it's going to depend on your child's personality, because you need to be firm. But you also don't want to get sucked in to a secondary battle. So like, for example, if you're like, Fine, I'm taking the Legos away, and you pick up, you grab all the Legos and you scoop them up. And now they're like, yanking on you trying to get all the Legos back. Now you've diverted into a secondary battle, are they going to bed? No, they want. They're in their nature, they got a different battle, and they're not going to bed. So in their mind, this worked out great, because they're not going to bet. So it really depends on your kid as you want. And again, trial and error, what is it, that's going to make the difference? I would say like one thing that I tend to do is I just repeat the instructions. And then I wait when you have ADHD, especially when they're younger. Kids have a slower processing. So like when you say something, you have to count like one 1000 to 1000. And then it enters their brain, it takes them a lot to like think of the instructions. And so a lot of times we're already they're giving more instructions before they actually process the first set of instructions. And I equate it to like when you're on your computer and you keep clicking on stuff because you're mad at it. And the computer like the little like spinny ball of death keeps going because you keep giving it instructions and it hasn't caught up yet. It's like all you're doing is you're you're you're creating more problems, because you're you keep giving instructions, and they haven't figured out the first set yet. So it's like you have to like it is time to stop the Legos. We need to like, it may be that this isn't a cleanup time. This is just we walk away from Legos when we go to bed. Yes, they need you. It's time to stand out. I need I've, I'm trying to work on getting that out of my vocabulary, because they don't really care what we need to happen. So it's like, it's time to stand up and go to bed. And then you wait. One 1000 2000 and give him a chance to decide. And then I just say it again. After like five seconds. It's time to stand up and go to bed. It's time to stand up and go to bed. And they have to like wait, I mean, I'm not waiting that long. So I'm not gonna even watch that air but like you had to give them that time and it feels to us like the grown up. It feels like a waiting forever. Like when you think about it. It's time to stand up and go to bed. One 1000 to 1000 Give them a chance to decide are they going to decide? Repeat the instruction that feels like 100 years when you're angry at you can you just want them to go to bat?
Megan Champion 1:14:47
It feels like defiance to give them time? Yeah, it feels like defiance as well. Like they're purposely How many times do we repeat ourselves? You know, like we're caught between the whole like I shouldn't have to say this more than once, or maybe even twice. But like, if you're on time number three or four, how long do you let that go on.
Patricia Sung 1:15:08
But again, it depends on your kid, like, if this is the first time you're implementing it, this is going to be a long transition for you like he doesn't do well transitions in the first place. But you're trying to instill a new transition, like, we'll be here a while. So give them a chance to figure out how this is going to work there. Oh, mom is very serious about this, we are in fact, standing up and going to bed right now. Like, this isn't going to be like it stood up and walked away, that's not going to happen on time one, we have to expect that this is going to be you know, a bit could be like a 10 minute thing to get them out of the playroom and over to the bathroom to brush teeth. But when you go in with the expectation of this is going to take us the next 10 minutes, I probably should start earlier, in order to get to bed on time, because we're going to be here minutes, then we have so much more patients than when we go in and expect our kids to just follow the directions and go like they're not a robot. So why are we expected to do that? And I like I'm saying all these things, and I'm like, I need to listen to these to listen to my own advice. Like, please don't take me as you know, you know, I do all these things all the time. There's plenty of times I call her Medusa mom, and they're trying to produce a mom comes out with like, all the snakes like y'all are bad. Like, like, that happens. So. But it's like, it's, it takes a lot of planning on our part as like the mom of like, I'm implementing this new transition, this is what I'm going to do if my child does this, I'm going to do this. If they do this, I'm going to do this. And then you get in there. And they actually did you know, they went route 73. And you didn't plan for route 73. I'm like, Okay, well, now I'm gonna have to think of a plan 73. But when we go into it, knowing this transition is going to take us a while, eventually, with the persistence factor, you will get to the point where they know, the timer went off, it's time for me to stand up and go and do my thing. And that may be also we're like, okay, hey, Legos just aren't a bedtime activity. Instead, maybe we need to do you know, some book reading and do Legos right after school when they need to, like, decompress. And, you know, a lot of times kids with ADHD like they need that time to decompress. And depending on whether you're more hyperactive or inattentive, it might look like running around like a dribble and hamster wheel, it might look like Please don't talk to me ever again, actually just for like 10 minutes. So that might be something you want to move and it's in, it's calculated. And here you are the mom, the master puppeteer, moving the day around. It's a lot. But when we get all those pieces in place, one our kids change, and then we got changed again. But it makes a difference overall, it's just, it feels like you're not making any headway. But know that you are, it just takes a long time.
Megan Champion 1:18:10
You are just gold. I could easily talk to you all day. You're saying things I'm just thinking about so much and what I want to do. One of the things is, you know, traditional calling from the other room. I'm in the kitchen there in the living room. Hey, hey, guys, you know, man, wrong. Like, there we
Patricia Sung 1:18:32
go. I didn't I hear one thing you said. I'm not ignoring you.
Megan Champion 1:18:36
I literally it did not register you. Especially if I'm into what I'm doing. My son will say that he'll say I did not hear you. He Is he is he
Patricia Sung 1:18:43
really didn't like no, I want you to know like he truly did not hear you. It looked like I consider it like just kind of like it bounces off your head and like didn't even enter your brain. Like you don't take it personally. It is like ADHD is not about you. And, you know, when children want to do well, I don't know what's the thing. Children always want to do? Well, I think children do well when they can they do well when they can they're not purposefully ignoring like, no, yes, sometimes they purposely ignore you because they want to keep doing what they're doing. But when you really study your kid and watch their reaction, and you know your kid, you can tell the difference between when they really did hear you and they're ignoring you. And when they truly didn't like you will know but you have to study them to get to the point where you can recognize it. Because like has a teacher I'm pretty good at kids tells like if you think about like playing poker like I can tell when a kid is really like be at see me or when they're really like I, I don't remember that fact. Like, yes, there are a few kids like when they get to like high school that can Cotonou. But like when they're sub 10, they don't have that skill level of like, you know, I'm trying to think of like a famous con artist and forest can't think of one right now. Like, they don't have that skill, they can't do it. So they're not. Like, if they're lying to you, it's usually pretty easy to tell. But you have to study them, like you get to know them. And you will not know the difference between is this defiance? Or is this them not being able to be successful here.
Megan Champion 1:20:40
I think of just my daughter every time I've been noticing, and I told her, but every time I give her an instruction, and she's she'll, she hears me. So ADHD and girls, I know can look different than boys, or at least
Patricia Sung 1:20:54
that's what I've heard. But for her, she can it does extremely different.
Megan Champion 1:20:57
And that's maybe we can quickly unpack that, but she she'll hear me. So that's not the problem. And I'll say, you know, whatever, come come into the kitchen, we're going to get ready to go upstairs, whatever. She says, okay, she hears me, she stands up, she gets distracted. And it's typically by petting our dog every time. And like 10 times a day bends down. Oh, look at the puppy, she gets down starts petting. And it looks like avoidance so that she doesn't have to do the task because she doesn't want to. But I'm wondering how much is, is literally she just got distracted. And she'll say I'm distracted right now. But it's like, but you're always distracted. And it's only with the dog. And it's only when I'm telling you to do something that you know how it. That's where I struggle, and understanding what to do in those moments. That's hard for me.
Patricia Sung 1:21:53
Well, and that's, I mean, those are skills that we have to teach our kids is that if you know you're going to get distracted by the dog every time you pass by, and you're supposed to be doing take the clothes upstairs. Like, as a grown up, I repeat things to myself, so I don't get distracted. Like that's one of the thing My kids always laugh at me that breakfast. I'm like, yogurt and pancakes, yogurt and pancakes, yogurt and pancakes, bacon, yogurt and pancake like otherwise, I try to like, what did you ever breakfast, and you will remember. And they're like, I just told you mom, pulling your nails. Like I said pancakes. And like, I have to like, repeat it in my head because I'm going to get distracted. Yeah, so like for her. It's like, you know, that's a skill you can teach her like, okay, when you stood up to put the clothes upstairs, you may have to repeat yourself, taking my clothes upstairs, taking my clothes off, dust it like whatever, if it's a song, if it's like make it into a rhythm. If it's just saying it like, that way, if she starts paying it off, she's like, No, taking my clothes. Like, that's, that's a life skill. I mean, because you know what all people forget to do things. All people want to pet a fluffy dog momento the most. But that's, if you see, that's where the patterns happening. It's like, okay, what strategies can we employ to overcome that specific thing? So clearly, it's when you're supposed to be doing a tour, and you pass by the dog? Do you like is the dog always with you? Are you purposely walking past the dog because you love him so much? Like? Is she purposely ignoring you as possible, but there's probably a good way to like, well, then maybe you shouldn't pass through the kitchen where the dog is you need to go straight upstairs. And that, you know, those are skills that they'll use their whole life, as they, you know, can extrapolate it and pull it into different situations.
Megan Champion 1:23:47
This is so good and helpful. I want to give you a chance to share what you know a little bit more about your podcast and where listeners can find you and connect with you. Because many of them may want to reach out and say hi as well.
Patricia Sung 1:24:02
So I have the motherhood in ADHD podcast and you can find it on any whatever your favorite podcast app is, it'll be there. And my website is motherhoodinadhd.com. They teach classes for moms to learn how to get their crap together and organize their day. So you know whether that's figuring out your calendar and to do list and how to create like the foundation of your day. Or starting in September, I'm teaching a class on figuring out daily routines and how to structure your day so that it runs more smoothly. I would love to have you in there we meet weekly. Also we have like a weekly support group. So that as you're implementing these things, I don't want you to feel like you're stuck. So you we have a weekly group where we meet, you can ask questions. You can meet other moms who think like you and get the support that you need to actually implement the stuff that makes a difference in your day. It's not just theory or talk, like we make things happen. Because you can be successful when you have ADHD. It's just a matter of figuring out what are the systems and structures that make sense for your brain? And then how do you overcome the obstacles that we know we're going to run into, because we have ADHD, and preparing for those and setting ourselves up for success. It is very possible to live a really great life with ADHD. It comes with its fair share of, of struggles for sure. But it is possible and I want to help as many moms out there as possible to to do that. So again, motherhood in ADHD is the website, the podcast, my instagram handle, wherever you want to find me,
Megan Champion 1:25:43
such such a gift that you are doing this such important work. Like I'm literally cutting us off, but not because I don't have 5000 Other things to ask you. So maybe we'd like for round two.
Patricia Sung 1:25:56
And he's like, are you done? Yeah.
Megan Champion 1:25:59
I know. It's just so good. So I just want to thank you truly for joining me today for giving all the wisdom and really tangible like there's a lot of takeaways here, but also just an overview on just understanding and accepting ADHD just in general. So all of it has just been such a gift. Thank you so so much.
Patricia Sung 1:26:21
Thank you so much for having me. I really enjoyed it. Obviously, we all fired up when I talk about ADHD and I want you the listener to know you are doing a great job. It is hard being a mom is hard. Having neurodiverse kids, it's hard being now new, a little a lot. Here I go like this is this shows my brain is like and you're done. Having a neurodiverse brain is hard, but you're doing a great job. Keep on truckin and you will get there and you'll see the fruit of all the labor that you're putting in. Eventually, maybe not tomorrow. Good eventually.
Megan Champion 1:26:59
Thank you. Thank you so so much. Thanks for listening today. If you'd like to talk with me personally, where we can chat and just get to know each other like old friends. I would love to do a discovery call with you. Go to my website ontheharddays.com and click on schedule a call. And if you're not already subscribed to this podcast, please do so so that you get the latest when they roll out. Not to mention, please leave a review if you feel like this episode spoke to you. That way the podcast will be shown to more mothers. And finally, you can find me on Instagram at on the hard days with bats in between each word or in my free Facebook community on the hard days podcast and community. If you are feeling isolated in your parenting journey, I encourage you to reach out through any of these means so that I can connect you with your people and support you in whatever way
Patricia Sung 1:27:59
the more resources, classes and community head over to my website motherhoodinadhd.com