Raising Out-of-the-box ADHD Children Well with Tracy Otsuka #240
There is a 50-75% chance that your child will have ADHD when you, their parent, have ADHD.
That means everything multiplies exponentially - both the struggles and the wins! Parenting is already a tough job, and ADHD adds extra flavor, spunk, and responsibility onto both our and our kids’ plates.
How can we raise our ADHD children well?
Meet Tracy Otsuka, author & host of the ADHD for Smart Ass Women podcast & book.
Tracy Otsuka, JD, is a certified ADHD coach and the host of the ADHD for Smart Ass Women podcast. Over the past decade, she has empowered thousands of clients (from doctors and therapists to C-suite executives and entrepreneurs) to see their neurodivergence as a strength–not a weakness. Tracy leverages her analytical skills from being a lead counsel at the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission to identify the right questions to ask her clients so they can boost their productivity, improve their finances, save failing relationships and live happier lives.
Tracy’s expertise and experience as an adult living with ADHD are regularly sought out by top tier media including Inc, Forbes, ADDitude magazine, and The Goal Digger Podcast. When she’s not sharing her thought leadership around ADHD on other platforms, she hosts her own podcast which ranks #1 in its category and has over 5 million downloads across 160 countries. She also moderates a Facebook group with nearly 100,000 members. A married mother of two, Tracy lives in Sonoma County outside of San Francisco.
We’re often told that people who have degrees or do well in school couldn’t possibly have ADHD. Giant Eye Roll!
While Tracy excelled in school, including a law degree, but it wasn’t until she was late-diagnosed with ADHD that she knew it was because she worked harder than everyone else and implemented some serious organization and structure.
Today we’re discussing how both Tracy and her son Marcus struggled with undiagnosed ADHD and dyslexia in school, affecting their grades and confidence. Tracy focused on supporting Marcus' interests and passions rather than grades, which helped him get into NYU and find his path to success.
Tracy also shares her hard earned wisdom around communication, understanding strengths and weaknesses, and not passing on generational trauma to her children as part of how her family is able to manage 3 of 4 members having ADHD.
With both her son and daughter reaching young adulthood, Tracy is on the other side of motherhood as an empty nester, and shining a light on what truly matters as you raise your ADHD kids well.
Links mentioned in this episode:
Brain Energy, by Dr. Christopher Palmer
Our annual ADHD Moms Luxury Weekend Retreat is coming up October 11-13, 2024 in Houston, Texas!
You're officially invited :)
“Gift yourself the opportunity to meet like-minded people (literally), make instant friendships, and the space to finally be yourself.” –ADHD Mama T.H.
I’ll take care of all the details - you simply show up and enjoy.
Put it on your calendar now.
Because you deserve to take care of yourself too.
Grab your all-inclusive ticket here: patriciasung.com/retreat
Last day to get your ticket: Tuesday, September 24th!
Curious how ADHD shows up frequently in women? Download this free checklist of ADHD symptoms to help you feel confident at your diagnosis assessment or in your own knowledge of ADHD.
I’ve got a podcast for you to check out! I’m honored to partner with Understood.org’s podcast, In It: Raising Kids who Learn Differently this month.
In each episode, you’ll hear from people sharing their own stories and perspectives on how to navigate and support those who have challenges with reading, math, ADHD, or dyslexia, and more. Listen today for support on how to better support yourself and your child.
Tracy Otsuka [00:00:00]:
When I actually go get into action and I do the work, I'm so much happier than when I'm thinking about doing the work and coming up with all these reasons I can't do the work. So I somehow learned how to just shut off my brain and just jump.
Patricia Sung [00:00:14]:
Are you overwhelmed by motherhood and barely keeping your head above water? Are you confused and frustrated by how all the other moms make it look so easy? You can't figure out how to manage the chaos in your mind, your home, or your family. I get you, mama. Parenting with ADHD is hard. Here is your permission slip to let go of the Pinterest worthy visions of organization and structure fit for everyone else. Let's do life like our brains do life, creatively, lovingly, and with all our might. When we embrace who we are and how our brains work, we can figure out how to live our lives successfully, and in turn, lead our families well. At the end of the day, we just wanna be good moms. But, spoiler alert, you are already a great mom.
Patricia Sung [00:01:05]:
ADHD does not mean you're doomed to be a hot mess mama. You can rewrite your story from shame spiral to success story, and I'll be right here beside you to cheer you on. Welcome to Motherhood in ADHD. Today's guest is Tracy Otsuka. Tracy is a powerhouse. Not only is she incredibly positive and motivated, but she is someone who is blazing a trail among ADHD women, and she is helping support thousands of clients who are doctors and therapists to c suite execs and entrepreneurs. And she wants us to know that as women, our ADHD is not a weakness. It is a strength.
Patricia Sung [00:01:48]:
Now Tracy has a laundry list of accomplishments from her time as lead counsel at the US Securities and Exchange Commission and all that she's accomplished. But today, we're connecting in on being a mom. And as someone whose kids are grown and leaping out into the world, she has the hindsight, the 2020 vision to say, hey. Here's what mattered. Here's what worked. And while all of us have different families with different kids, I hope that you can take today from my conversation with Tracy that you do know what's best for you and you know what's best for your kids, that when our kids are seen, safe, and supported, that they can truly flourish. And that a lot of the little things just don't matter. Tracy and I start with a little bit about her background in law and how did she make it through that.
Patricia Sung [00:02:41]:
And then really dive into being a mom to her son, Marcus, and story time around what does it look like to do things in a different way. We're also gonna dabble a little bit in perimenopause at the end, and I just can't wait for you to meet this woman who demonstrates how we can do scary things and we don't need to be perfect to be able to do really big things. So let's welcome Tracy to the show. And hey, if you've been thinking about coming to the retreat, today is almost the last day to get your ticket. So go grab it, and I will see you next month. patriciasung.com/retreat. How are you doing today, ma'am?
Tracy Otsuka [00:03:18]:
I am doing great. How about you?
Patricia Sung [00:03:20]:
Good. It's been a good day. We had this crazy rainstorm for the last few days, and it's like, oh, the sun is shining.
Tracy Otsuka [00:03:27]:
So What part of the country are
Patricia Sung [00:03:29]:
you there? In Houston. Okay. Is it hot yet? It's actually supposed to be, like, blazing hot for the first time tomorrow. So it's coming in.
Tracy Otsuka [00:03:37]:
Yeah.
Patricia Sung [00:03:38]:
So but I'm not shoveling snow.
Tracy Otsuka [00:03:40]:
Raining cold. So it's always too cold as far as I'm concerned until we get to the summer, and then it's too hot because I like it around 72 degrees. No colder and no warmer.
Patricia Sung [00:03:50]:
That's my perfect weather.
Tracy Otsuka [00:03:51]:
Yeah. Exactly.
Patricia Sung [00:03:52]:
Alright, ma'am. I have so many questions for you, but I actually wanna begin with an unrelated question. Is that there is so much BS around how people with ADHD can't be successful, and yet you have a law degree. So what would you say was, like, your secret to success and being able to manage both the high stress and high work level that comes with getting your law degree and ADHD?
Tracy Otsuka [00:04:18]:
You know, I guess I thought I couldn't be anything other than successful. Now this is what I have to say though. I didn't really struggle in school. Once I had the diagnosis for the diagnosis, what I realized though is I worked 50 times harder. So I was the kid who, certainly in law school, who would read everything once and highlight it. Then I would read everything again, and there's so much case law to read in law school. It's insane. I would outline everything in red and then put my outline into a notebook, which would be maybe a 100 pages for each subject.
Tracy Otsuka [00:04:52]:
Then I would take that 100 page notebook. I would highlight it. It like, there would be, you know, just everything. And I would make it into a 3 page outline. And then from the outline with the same tabs and highlights, I would have note cards. So I did things 50 times more than anybody else did them. And then my friends would take my notes, and they would start studying. I've been studying for weeks.
Tracy Otsuka [00:05:13]:
They would start studying, oh, I don't know, maybe a day or 2 before, and they would get a half a grade higher than I would every single time. And so what ended up happening was I thought that, well, I must not be very smart. I must not be as smart as they were. And in the back of my mind, I thought I was, but if the grades keep showing you otherwise, right, you think you're not as smart. Now there are kids though that and I think it's the most creative kids that are typically the ones that struggle the most in school. So I believe that every ADHD brain is brilliant. I mean, of the thousands of ADHD women that I've had the privilege of meeting, I've never met a one that wasn't brilliant at something. And what we are seeing today is there are so many corporations, you know, the Googles and the the Metas and the Salesforces and the banks even that are now hiring kids that don't even have college degrees.
Tracy Otsuka [00:06:08]:
Right? Because they have this area of interest that they are so much more brilliant and so much farther ahead than the kids that are in school that are studying this material. And it's moving so fast, the professors aren't even up to to in it. Yeah. So, I think that a lot of it is just social construct. Right? We have this education system that's been the same for a 150 years. What anything in society has been around for a 150 years and we haven't tweaked it or changed it. But, you know, we don't with, the education system. So I think that I learned early on that structure was really important to me.
Tracy Otsuka [00:06:48]:
And so unfortunately, I did have a perfectionistic mindset. What I realized is that if I didn't do that extra work, if I was even a little bit unprepared, I would get anxious. So a lot of masking. Yeah. And that's what got me through. And I'm hyperactive. So and I'm pretty damn hyperactive. And so what I learned early on too, is that when I am in action, when I am doing the work and I'm out of my brain, that's spinning and spinning and giving me all different options.
Patricia Sung [00:07:19]:
Mhmm.
Tracy Otsuka [00:07:19]:
When I actually go get into action and I do the work, I'm so much happier than when I'm thinking about doing the work and coming up with all these reasons I can't do the work. So I somehow learned how to just shut off my brain and just jump. And people like me tend to be successful because they're constantly jumping. Because once you jump once and you realize, okay, that didn't kill me, then second time. Right? Okay. That didn't kill me either. Well, it almost did, but still, I'm gonna try again. You jump a third time.
Tracy Otsuka [00:07:49]:
You start that's how you build confidence. So I think that's what happened to me, And I also think that I do not have an extreme case of ADHD until I got into perimenopause, and then I can change.
Patricia Sung [00:08:02]:
Okay. I was like, I'm definitely gonna ask about that in a second. But what I wanna ask is if you were to go back and tell yourself back in school some advice, knowing what you know now, what would you then advise yourself to do differently given that you know how your brain works and everything now?
Tracy Otsuka [00:08:21]:
In college, my dad was a dentist, and I was like, I can do that if he did that. I was also a little arrogant. Right? And then I got into my 1st year of, pre dent. I don't know what major I was major I shouldn't have been in. And I had to take and calculus, and I almost flunked out of school. And so when I hear people talking about the ADHD tax, kind of think that that's a lot of it. Right? So what ended up happening then is I discovered I can't do this. I hate this subject, and I suck at it.
Tracy Otsuka [00:08:51]:
And here I was top of my class in high school. But once I college, a root of their class. Right? And so then you're competing with everybody who's top of their class and people who are actually quite talented in this particular area I had no talent in. I hated it in high school. What was I thinking? You know what I was thinking is? I want people to call me doctor Otsuka. Mhmm. And what I was thinking is, oh, well, my dad did it, so I can do it. I was thinking, oh, and I could actually have my own business, so I wouldn't have to work for anyone.
Tracy Otsuka [00:09:19]:
So those were the kinds of things I was thinking. I wasn't thinking, is this something I'm really passionate about? Is this something I really wanna do? No one ever asked me that, right? It was about, okay, where can you make a good living? And I didn't know any women. I was a feminist even then. I didn't know any women who were dentists. And I thought, Okay, yeah, this is what I'm gonna do. And then I got my, you know what, handed to me. So I think what I would have done is much earlier on, I would have really looked at what are the things that I love? What is it that I'm really interested in? Now, in the family that I grew up in, psychologists were roundly panned regularly. So were teachers.
Tracy Otsuka [00:09:56]:
What was it? If you can't do, you teach, which is so obnoxious. Right? Now, I love my parents, but I also think it was a generational thing, right? It was. And my dad's Japanese American and my mother was German. So I had tiger parents. So they never said this. But what I got from them in society was, you're a doctor, you're a dentist or you're a lawyer. So I couldn't do dentistry. And so if I couldn't do dentistry, I certainly couldn't do medicine.
Tracy Otsuka [00:10:23]:
And honestly, I am so squeamish. There's no way I could have done any of those things. Like, what was I even thinking? So those were out. So guess what was left was lawyer. Yes. And I remember going into the career counselor's office my freshman year of college and saying, look, you know, I can't do this. Yeah. And he said, well, what he said, well, I think I'm a science major because I want and he looked at me and he said, Tracy, that is not how you pick a major.
Tracy Otsuka [00:10:45]:
And I said, well, that's how I pick a major. And so that's what I did. Now, do I regret law? Absolutely not. But knowing what I know now, what I really wanted to study was psychology. But I jinxed that, oh, number 1, you're not going to be able to get a job. Number 2, I didn't even know the difference between a psychologist and a psychiatrist. So I thought I'd have to go to medical school for both, you know? Yes. But that is what I've always been fascinated by.
Tracy Otsuka [00:11:11]:
And where I probably would have gone, but it wasn't around then, is the University of Pennsylvania, their, school of, positive Martin Seligman School, the school he started out there. Because even when I think about psychology, which is all about what's wrong with you, that's not where I am either. But I would have loved to have that background. So that's a long winded, you know, of how I got to where I got and what I would do differently. You know, when I think about I took a few psychology classes, and they were easy because it was just natural. And so there was no problem with the grades. So what I was saying is that as far as the ADHD tax, because I had this awful first we were on the quarter system. So I think I stayed for 2 quarters.
Tracy Otsuka [00:11:53]:
There were 3 quarters and then summer. Right? Okay. So I stayed for 2 and realized I can't do this. 3rd quarter, I switched, ended up having to go to summer school to make up the credits in order to change my major. And because of those first two orders that literally killed my GPA, I was trying to play catch up. So because of that, I couldn't get into the best law school. And I'm not a great test taker either. And I didn't know about, oh, woe to these programs and they teach you how to take the test.
Tracy Otsuka [00:12:24]:
Or actually, maybe I did go to one of them. I can't remember. But I ended up after then having to go to graduate law school. So that to me was kind of where I saw the ADHD task. Tac, task, tax, where I was constantly trying to catch up. And I saw that with my son too. You know, it's the same thing. Like, I see this kid that is so incredibly bright, but discovered that he also had dyslexia in high school in college.
Tracy Otsuka [00:12:52]:
And nobody caught it until then. And that was the 3rd time he had been tested.
Patricia Sung [00:12:57]:
Yeah.
Tracy Otsuka [00:12:57]:
And so he's always kind of playing this catch up. And so in his major, he's got straight As, but, you know, he's got that calculus grade that, you know, almost didn't pass kind of thing. So
Patricia Sung [00:13:07]:
Mhmm. Yeah.
Tracy Otsuka [00:13:08]:
Well, I
Patricia Sung [00:13:08]:
think it's really important that we talk about, like, these hard parts. Because a lot of times we look, we're like, oh, well, Tracy's a lawyer. Tracy has this great business. And we see all the good stuff, and we don't think about
Tracy Otsuka [00:13:18]:
Yeah.
Patricia Sung [00:13:18]:
What was the actual struggle that you had to go through to get there? But I think it's easy for us to play down like, oh, well, I'm sure there was some struggle, but she figured it out. It's like, no, that when you were going through that, that was really big.
Tracy Otsuka [00:13:30]:
Yeah. And I remember when I was in my freshman year of high school and I would do stupid things like I would literally stay up all night on no dose, right, thinking that that's how I'm actually gonna learn. No. Because everything was last minute because I hated it, and I didn't understand calculus. I didn't understand biochem. Like, I just had no interest. And so there was no footing. And I came from an all girl Catholic high school that, lo and behold, did not teach us well when it came to science and math.
Tracy Otsuka [00:13:58]:
We were great in all the social studies and English and all of that, but really bad in math and science. So I had As in those subjects in high school and I was completely unprepared for college. So it was kind of this triple whammy. And when my son was going through school, going through college, he's graduating in May, we have no idea how. 3 majors in 4 years, but he is graduating on time. I'm actually flying out on Friday for his graduation next week. So I saw the same thing happening to him. And so I think it's actually a common ADHD challenge.
Tracy Otsuka [00:14:33]:
Yeah. I think though that all of these experiences, if they don't break us, they give us incredible resilience. And what I wanna say, because I get panned all the time for this happy, optimistic, sunny, you know, how do we make it work kind of. It's just my personality. Right? I've had friends get mad at me and tell me, why do you always have to make lemonade out of lemons? I'm like, I think that's a compliment. So I guess I can be annoying and irritating to some people, including women with ADHD. This is what I want them to hear, though. I did not have developmental trauma.
Tracy Otsuka [00:15:09]:
I don't think any of us can get through life without a little bit of trauma. And I certainly believe that a lot of the all the little pets you get as an ADHD woman or a person with an ADHD brain, anyone, can all add up to a big T trauma. Yeah. If you really struggle in school, right, if you really struggle with the parenting thing, and then your partner is an ass, right, and is constantly shaming you. All of that can lead to big t trauma. But the women that I have seen, and again, I've met thousands of women with ADHD that have struggled the most, have developmental trauma. They have some big t trauma. So I don't have that.
Tracy Otsuka [00:15:46]:
I am privileged not to have that. And I'm constantly saying this, but somehow, there are people that don't wanna hear it because I hear that a lot. Oh, she's got all this privilege and this and that. And, well, I mean, what I can say is my sister has ADHD and she has struggled a hell of a lot more than I have. We came from the same family. Right? Yeah. But there were other circumstances. So I recognize that I don't think anybody have an easy time with ADHD, but it is part of our brilliance.
Tracy Otsuka [00:16:18]:
And I think when we can own it and start to care a lot less about what other people think about us and just become more of who we actually are because I don't believe we're meant to follow. And I think that is the biggest problem. Right? We're constantly trying to fit it in because we don't wanna be too much. Yeah. Heaven forbid. You know, especially with women, they don't want us too much. We're not supposed to be too opinionated. We're not supposed to be too loud.
Tracy Otsuka [00:16:45]:
You know, we're not supposed to be too like all of that stuff that we're constantly trying to fit in. And I don't think we're meant to fit in. I actually think we're meant to lead in our big area of interest. And the quicker we get to that, I think the happier we will become and the easier our ADHD will be, too. I mean, trying to do stuff that you suck at. I mean, look at me in calculus and, what was the other one? I can't even remember. Calculus and
Patricia Sung [00:17:11]:
Some chemistry, organic chemistry or something?
Tracy Otsuka [00:17:13]:
Biochem. Yeah.
Patricia Sung [00:17:14]:
Oh, okay.
Tracy Otsuka [00:17:14]:
Like, I totally sucked. Oh my god. That was trauma all in itself. Like, little trauma, but that was trauma. And so every time I think about it, but then there were weird things, Patricia, like in high school. I hated geometry. Like, I get lost everywhere. Like, literally, like scary loss where they have to send out the mounted patrol, especially in nature.
Tracy Otsuka [00:17:34]:
So geometry, absolutely not. Algebra, I hated algebra. But I got the highest grade in the class. I got an a plus in trigonometry. And so in my brain, I was always like, how did I get an a plus in trigonometry, but I barely squeaked by with a b in geometry? Like, how does this even work? Well, tree is all about systems and structure, and my brain does really well in that. And it recognizes patterns. And, you know, there's no spatial crap going on. So I just understood how my brain worked, you know, when I was, honestly, starting high school.
Patricia Sung [00:18:13]:
Okay. I'm like, there are so many rabbit holes I wanna jump down in there. But I'm like, let's pull it in. Okay. Let's pause a moment and say thank you to our sponsor, which is Understood.org. They have a great new podcast that you can check out on your podcast app right here. It's called In It: Raising Kids Who Learn Differently. What I love about it is that in these episodes, you're hearing stories from other parents.
Patricia Sung [00:18:37]:
You're getting other perspectives and advice that's working for other families, so that you know you're not alone. Specifically for kids who are having challenges with reading or math or ADHD or dyslexia, as there is a good chance to do since you're here. This is a great show for practical tips, helpful info, and really boosting your confidence as a parent. To listen, search for the podcast here in your podcast app. It's called In It: Raising Kids Who Learn Differently and have a listen. That's In It: Raising Kids Who Learn Differently, right here in your podcast app. When we're thinking about, like, as moms and you say, like, yes. There's a lot of trauma that comes with ADHD families.
Patricia Sung [00:19:22]:
And a lot of times, especially when there's a lot of undiagnosed ADHD. Yeah. A lot of the trauma just is running rampant.
Tracy Otsuka [00:19:30]:
Yeah.
Patricia Sung [00:19:30]:
And then we as moms are trying to keep that from happening under our watch. We are trying so hard to hold it together and have our family not recycle all that stuff that happened to us as kids.
Tracy Otsuka [00:19:44]:
Yeah.
Patricia Sung [00:19:44]:
So as a mom whose kids are older and you're like, you you actually have, like, the hindsight 2020 to be like, okay. Here's what we did. How do you, like, change those generational cycles that are happening and not, you know, all the the 1,000 cuts that you had to deal with as a kid? How do you not pass that on to your kids as best you can? Obviously, we're not perfect and we're never gonna have all the answers. But how do you keep that from continuing on to your kids?
Tracy Otsuka [00:20:13]:
I think you choose what's really important. So what came up for me, I thought about my mom. And she passed away unexpectedly in June. My mother was frigging June Cleaver. She was better than June Cleaver. She was like June Cleaver and Martha Stewart put together. She was perfect in every way. Outward perfection.
Tracy Otsuka [00:20:34]:
Right? Our house was always though. We would not go do things as a family because the house was a mess. And I actually think that with, my mom's also German. I also think that she had a lot of anxiety. And so the way she controlled the anxiety was everything had to be clean around her, right? And I have a little bit of that. I call it visual pollution. If there's anything in my line of sight that's a mess, it doesn't mean I might not stuff it into a drawer and close it, right? But at least if I don't have to see it, my brain can do well. But I cannot sit down in a pile of mess and get any work done.
Tracy Otsuka [00:21:13]:
And I would challenge any brain that says that they really can do that. So anyway, when I had kids, again, privilege, I was able to get help. And I have a husband who does at least 51%, maybe 75%. So much of when I think about my mom, my mom had 4 kids by the time she was 25. And we had a gourmet dinner on the table every night. The house was always spotless. I don't even know how she was able and we did all kinds of activities, how she was able to manage all this. When I had kids, I said, screw it.
Tracy Otsuka [00:21:46]:
I don't care about any of that crap. And I was able to get help. And I know that's another thing people are, well, you can afford to get help and blah, blah, blah. And what my comment would be, you can't afford not to get help when you have ADHD. And I don't care if that is looking at your partner and saying, okay, you need to help me here. Just because I was born, am I allowed to say this with a vagina, does not mean that I am going to be better at doing these things. In fact, I suck at them, all of this administrative stuff. So my husband and I, we split the duties and we split them along the lines of what is it that I do best and what is it that he does best? So he did everything that had to do with anything administrative for the kids.
Tracy Otsuka [00:22:29]:
I did all the other stuff that had to do with the kids. I mean, that worked really well. And then, again, you know, we had some when the kids were little up until my son was 3, because I was also working. Yeah. We had someone who would come in at 7:30 in the morning, and then she'd and she helped us for years. So that kind of kept everything sane because she was by the book. And so I didn't wanna disappoint her. It was almost like she was my boss, you know? So I think what it was is I just I got rid of all the gender roles, the sexual stereotypes, the sexism, all of that.
Tracy Otsuka [00:23:06]:
And it came down to we do well. And then unlike my mom, I didn't really care what other people thought. Like, my house wasn't perfect. Whatever. Right? And what I also think I got from my mom is my mom really loved being a parent. Four kids still loved it. And I think that is what she missed the most. And I think it caused some, you know, mood issues because she just loved that chaos.
Tracy Otsuka [00:23:35]:
And I'm like that too. I love chaos. Not mess, but I love noise. I love children running through the house. I love their friends here. I love slamming doors and fingerprints all over the, you know, door and the my mom wouldn't have loved that at all. But I to me, that shows life. And so I think what was your question? Where the hell am I going?
Patricia Sung [00:23:57]:
I was asking, like, how do we not convey that like, the traumas that we go through as kids, especially related to our ADHD or the ADHD that runs in our families, how do we not pass that along to our kids? And you're saying about, like, your values.
Tracy Otsuka [00:24:10]:
I think we get rid of the crap that truly doesn't matter. This is what kids need. They need to be seen. They need to feel like they're safe, and they need to be supported. All this other stuff, you know, the whole school system and the weird parents and the, you know, problems that your kids have with other kids, like, all of that stuff, yes, we have to work through it, but it doesn't really matter whether or not your kid gets straight a's or straight b's or I mean, hopefully, they can at least be in the c range. But all they need to know is they are perfect exactly the way they are. And then as a parent, I would just keep trying, this is what I did, keep trying to look for their brilliance so that I could help them see it in themselves because that is literally all kids need. And I mean, my son okay, let me tell you this.
Tracy Otsuka [00:25:03]:
So if there's any parents that are, like, really stressed out and so my son was typical ADHD, consistently inconsistent, As and Fs in the same week, went to high school. But we knew he was smart, like when he would talk. Unlike me, he has incredible working memory. So for example, if he is arguing about any specific subject or debating, like he will remember all the facts. I know what is true because I've read it all, but hell if I can remember any of it. So I sound like an idiot when I'm arguing. He does not. He sounds brilliant.
Tracy Otsuka [00:25:36]:
And so this is what the teachers would look at. Right? They would look at this kid and say, he's not applying himself because he's way smarter than this. And I think that, you know, that's one way that boys fall through the cracks. Now my daughter was recently diagnosed with ADHD too. So for her, it was law school, 1st year of law school. And she was just like, why am I reading this stuff 50,000 times over? Nobody else is doing this. It really reminded me of my law school experience. And so she got diagnosed and she's like, Mom, it is a completely different ballgame.
Tracy Otsuka [00:26:06]:
She's on Vyvanse. Doesn't take it all the time, but takes it when, she really needs to study. And she's like, Oh my god, I can do anything on this. You know? I can actually read something once and understand what's going on. Okay. So where was I going? What was my what was the question, Patricia? Because I had a good thought.
Patricia Sung [00:26:23]:
You were telling the story about Marcus having a's and f's in the same week.
Tracy Otsuka [00:26:27]:
But why was I telling that? What was
Patricia Sung [00:26:28]:
your were you telling that? I love how it's like you get 2 ADHD people together. We're like, it was a really good story. And where were we going with it? Well, because we were talking about, like, again, like, back to that, like, not passing the generational trauma onto our families. Yes.
Tracy Otsuka [00:26:40]:
Okay. So this is what I wanna tell you. So then so he goes to high school. He does not get into the, my daughter got into, like, a, you know, a top 30 in the country high school on a scholarship, mind you. She was a jazz singer. My son, oh my god. That school would have been so good for him because I always feel like my son was actually the barometer for good teaching. When there was a teacher who is passionate, he would get A's.
Tracy Otsuka [00:27:03]:
When there was a teacher who did not wanna be there, C's and worse, right? And every school the school was called Branson in Marin County. And every single teacher that my daughter had, I mean, she just, it was so hard, but she loved it. He would have been challenged. He would have done great there, did not get in. So he ended up going to a high school, his first big public high school. I think there were 2,000 kids in his school. My son was a drummer. He got into this Art Quest program, but they really didn't have the funds for it.
Tracy Otsuka [00:27:32]:
So they took all the freshmen and dumped them with the seniors. So there were 11 drummers in the freshman class, way too many drummers. Right? So he would go to band or whatever that music class program was called, and he would screw around. And my son is very social, and he's a smart aleck. So he's funny as hell and very, irreverent. Like, he'll say things that the other kids only think about, but really a rule follower if he respects the teacher. But if he doesn't respect the teacher, he is a hellion. And so the seniors, I guess, took him under his wing.
Tracy Otsuka [00:28:04]:
Well, you know, these are all drummers, so you can imagine they're a little bit counterculture anyway. They campus, and he got stoned. And I tell my parents to know that, you know, nothing is lost. Like and I knew this at the time, but let me finish the story. So he got stoned. They they gave him it was weed with a bong. And I guess when it's in a bong, you get stoned a lot faster. So he comes back to school.
Tracy Otsuka [00:28:28]:
They took him off campus driving. So all these kids, they're in, I don't know whose house, and they're all stoned. They're driving in a car. They drive back to the school. He goes to math class. He hates his math class. He hates his math class teacher, and he proceeds. I can't even imagine this.
Tracy Otsuka [00:28:44]:
He's so stoned. He throws up in class. Can you imagine how awful that would be?
Patricia Sung [00:28:48]:
Oh, no.
Tracy Otsuka [00:28:49]:
I can't believe he lets me tell this story. I'm embarrassed for him every time I think about it. So needless to say, my husband and I are in Silicon Valley. We get a phone call from the nurse. She's like, he's sick. And I'm like, oh my gosh. You know, we're down in Silicon Valley. It's about, like, 2 hours 15 minutes to get back up to Santa Rosa.
Tracy Otsuka [00:29:06]:
You know, I'm I'm so sorry. You know? And hey. And and she's stoned. And I'm like, what? This doesn't happen in my family. What are you talking about? And so my sister had to go pick him up. And she calls me, and she brings him to the house. And she's like, he is mortified. So mortified.
Tracy Otsuka [00:29:23]:
So I'm driving. Like, you know, his dad and, you know, I are totally involved in his life. The sun rises and sets on this kid. What the hell is he thinking? I walk through the door. I look at his face, and I'm like, he is beating himself up so badly. There is no way in hell that there is anything that I should be adding to this. I sit down with him, and the first thing out of my mouth is, Marcus, one day you're gonna look back on this and you're gonna laugh. And he just starts bawling.
Tracy Otsuka [00:29:54]:
And I looked at him and I said, so, Marcus, do you think this is the school for you? And he's like, no. I think I need to get out of here. I'm really hanging around with the wrong group of people. Now what I will tell you sadly is one of his friends is in prison. The other one died. I don't know about, you know, but just know that these were at risk kids. He met them in football practice. They had an abusive football coach who, you know, what Marcus would always say is, look, I have parents that they were there for me.
Tracy Otsuka [00:30:26]:
They love me. But I am so worried about these kids who don't have that. They don't have a community. They don't have anybody who even, you know, cares where they are. And so they're getting this abuse from this football coach. What is that doing to them? Because it's doing a lot to me. So what had happened with him is he was on Adderall, and he decided at the beginning of freshman year, he wanted to try it because he wanted to do well in school. This is a kid who was really ambitious, and he couldn't understand why he couldn't do well in school.
Tracy Otsuka [00:30:58]:
So he had been, you know, diagnosed with ADHD. Initially, he didn't wanna try medication, then he did wanna try it. So we said fine, and they put him on Adderall. Nobody watched it, including his parents. I just assumed that, you know, this isn't that big of a deal. He'll be fine. You know, the doctors are telling us. So, yeah, let's do it.
Tracy Otsuka [00:31:17]:
Well, it wasn't when he was on the Adderall. So he was, you know, on doing playing football. And honestly, you know, I said, I don't want you to play football. I'm worried about your brain. I'm, you know, all of these studies about CTE. I think that's what it's called. I don't want you playing football, but, you know, he's a high school kid and he's in a brand new school. This is what he wants to do.
Tracy Otsuka [00:31:35]:
I'm like, okay. And so I thought it was the abusive football coach that was making him so anxious and irritable. And, like, I looked at him and he was so skinny, but he was practicing 6 days a week for hours a day. So I just assumed this was all football. I did not even think that this might be the Adderall. And one day, it was December. He started it in August, the end of August. In December, I looked at him and I was thinking, your grades are no better.
Tracy Otsuka [00:32:05]:
In fact, they're worse. And this was before he got into trouble. You are so irritable. You don't seem happy. Marquie, let's get you off of this. I think it might be the Adderall. So we slowly wean him off the Adderall, and he's better because he's not so anxious. But what I didn't understand is he then pitched into a depression.
Tracy Otsuka [00:32:24]:
So what he was doing and I kinda knew, like, I'm like, who are these kids? And somehow, and I can't remember now, but I knew that he was smoking weed. I didn't know the extent of it. But what he was doing was trying to manage his own nervous system. He was self medicating, And he didn't understand. He, you know, he sent me this he wrote a letter to himself. It was in an English class, and then they were gonna send it back to themselves when they were seniors. And he got it back when he was a senior. And I read this letter, and I'm just like, oh, my gosh.
Tracy Otsuka [00:32:53]:
Like, I had no idea. So I think my point is, first of all, it can happen to anyone. It is not the end of the world. So he ended up going then to another school. It was a brand new private school that they promised to teach to interest. Of course, they didn't. You know, all the people that were part of it were Stanford professors, and, you know, they promised us the world. He went from all of his friends, and he had some really good friends too at Santa Rosa that were actually, I think, helpful and that were good for his brain.
Tracy Otsuka [00:33:25]:
And he left all of his friends. He loved basketball. He left his basketball team, and he went to the school that started with 19 students. And he hated it pretty much the whole time because all the kids that were like him would consistently get kicked out even though they had no kids, right? But, you know, it was founded by a billionaire. And we were promised all these things. And, you know, it was fairly reasonable for a private school. His junior year, he was really excited because for the first time, he got to meet with the college counselor at school. And the college counselor gave him a brochure that was all about how to become an HVAC technician.
Tracy Otsuka [00:34:00]:
Now there is nothing at all wrong with being an HVAC technician. If that is your passion, you go for it. My son was scared of bugs. And you know what HVAC technicians do. They think you're all under houses. Like, it was so ridiculous. And he was so dejected. And she basically told him, you're not college material.
Tracy Otsuka [00:34:20]:
So I went as director of the school. You know, at this point, I don't know, maybe they had 60, 80 kids. And she said, look, Tracy, we've done everything we can do for him. And so we went home and I told him, you go pick any high school you want for your senior year. All I care about is that you're happy. I don't give a crap about any of this stuff. You will be just fine. I know how bright you are.
Tracy Otsuka [00:34:42]:
I know how passionate you are, whatever. So at that point, he he ended up going back to the Catholic school, the high school that was part of the elementary school he was part of. But you know why he did that? He did that because of the structure. What he objected to about that new school, there was no structure. So there was no portal that he could go and check and see what was due when. Everything was a mess. The teachers were a mess. You know, it was all like loosey goosey, you know, whatever the teachers wanna do.
Tracy Otsuka [00:35:09]:
Every week, they would change his brain could not handle that. And because they would speak to him and think he was bright, they would think, oh, he's just not applying himself. He's got an attitude problem. So my son is graduating. He ended up going to NYU and he got in as a rapper. So that's kind of all the friends like he was in this rap community. He was a rapper. He was a really good audio engineer, but he did a portfolio for NYU.
Tracy Otsuka [00:35:35]:
He did a social justice rap and then wrote a big piece around it. You know, he's half Japanese, so it was about the model minority. And he did not have the grades. He did not have the test scores, But he had passion, and he was not afraid to still ask for the world and to show how his experiences had now shaped who he is. And we almost fell off of our chair when he was accepted to NYU. But the thing is, you know, it was the art school. It was, not Clive Davis, but, Tish. And so they got that kind of kid.
Tracy Otsuka [00:36:12]:
They got that kind of brain. And, you know, I mean, still going through college, we're like, phew, he's in college. Right? Because he did not wanna go to college. It was he thought it was a waste of time. He thought special construct. I didn't think he was gonna be able to get. Right? And we let him go to Europe. We had a foreign exchange student that lived with us, I don't know, 15, 20 years before.
Tracy Otsuka [00:36:33]:
Let him go to Europe and use that guy's his name is Marcus. He was named after him. He's his godfather. And he used his home as the home base. And he traveled at 17 years old, his junior summer. He traveled all over Europe by himself. I wouldn't travel by myself now. So that is what he really discovered, how much he loved travel and how much he loved other cultures and how much he loved learning about other people and he loved other languages.
Tracy Otsuka [00:36:59]:
And that really fueled a passion for him. I remember he got off the plane. He was there for about 6 weeks. He got off the plane and he looked at us and he said, I'm going to college. And we're like, I thought you didn't think college was for you. And I wanna travel. And I think if I go to college, it'll be easier for me to travel. And what else am I doing for the next 4 years? And, you know, I'm lucky enough that you all are willing to pay for it.
Tracy Otsuka [00:37:23]:
So again, didn't have the grades, didn't have the test scores. They had a college counselor at this, Catholic high school, but he's like, no. I wanna do it myself. The college counselor came to me several months in because he was new at this school, and she said, I've never met a kid like that. He knows more about all these small independent colleges than even I know because he was interested now and he was doing all the research trying to find a college that would fit his brain. Now he applied early decision to NYU and that's in big part why he got in as well. But, you know, he had done all this research about, okay, what will fit for my brain? And then even when he was in NYU, and this is what I want parents to hear, like, we were always waiting for the other shoe to drop because 3 majors in 4 years, you know? But somehow, he knew, I don't he doesn't really like school.
Patricia Sung [00:38:16]:
Are you curious if you have ADHD? Like, you're still just not quite sure. Is this me or not? Maybe you're getting ready for your diagnosis appointment, or maybe you wanna bring it up with your GP, but you're not quite sure how to talk about it. I put together a checklist of symptoms. That's not your average boring list of symptoms. It's the Patricia take on, from what I've seen of working with thousands of women, ways that I see these symptoms actually showing up in real life. I put it all together in a downloadable checklist, and I want you to go get it. Download the checklist. Go through and check off, here are the things that show up in my life, and there's space in there for you to write in where you see these things showing up in your life.
Patricia Sung [00:38:55]:
And then you can take that list to your doctor's appointment and show them, like, when I say I'm being forgetful, here's what I mean. When you ask me, like, are you hyperactive? This is how hyperactivity shows up in my life, in my brain, so that you have concrete examples and you don't freeze up when it comes time to talk about it, you have your preparation there and you feel confident and capable in talking about you because you know yourself best. So head over to my website and you can download the free checklist at patriciasung.com/adhd-symptoms, and that'll go right to your email, and you can take that with you and be prepared for that tough conversation. Again, that's patriciasung.com/adhd-symptoms.
Tracy Otsuka [00:39:42]:
I wanna talk about medication because I think this is a big important part of the story. So was tested again because we were like, there's something going on because of calculus. No, because of I think it was a calculus class. And then he was tested for dyslexia. And all along, he's been saying, Mom, I think I've got dyslexia. And, you know, dyslexia, it's a spectrum. You know, yes, he could read, but he never did read because it was hard. You know, when he was a kid, he loved all those captain underpants and all those books with all the pictures.
Tracy Otsuka [00:40:11]:
So he gets diagnosed with dyslexia. He's gifted in math. Like, if you look at his testing, he's gifted in math, but he can't pass tests. Makes no sense, which is why I got myself tested because I was like, that's me. How do I get an A in trigonometry? But I don't have dyslexia. It is when the letters and the numbers come together in math. That is when he really struggles. But he's one of those human beings that can calculate, like, multiply everything and divide stuff and like in his head, which I cannot do.
Tracy Otsuka [00:40:40]:
And it's the long form where you have to like, he'll get the right answer, but he can't show how he got there. So it's it's that kind of thing. And I can't remember where I was going, but I thought it was important. Whatever. Okay. I call those brain holes. And when I had a publicist, when my book came out or right before my book came out, and I was so anxious about how am I going to do interviews? You know, how am I going to talk to people when and I'm sure, like, there's so many people who have asked me to be on their podcast. But prior to the book, I'm sure they thought, oh, well, she doesn't wanna be, you know, whatever.
Tracy Otsuka [00:41:14]:
That wasn't it at all. It's that I have what I call brain holes where I can't remember. You know, I I'm going in one direction, and then I can't remember. And I remember talking to my publicist about that. And she said, Tracy, what I realized about you is it takes you about 5 seconds, and then it comes back. So just stall. So one of the good things about the book is that it taught me that working with a woman on speaking, right, for the book. And this was a different woman.
Tracy Otsuka [00:41:36]:
She's a speaking coach. I sent her an interview and I said, this absolutely sucked. And she went through it. And she said, I thought the best part was when you couldn't remember something because that showed the audience what it looks like to have ADHD and to have a really poor working memory. And so once she said that, it was worth everything I paid, you know, to work with her. I'm not sure what more she actually did, although that totally calmed my anxiety. And it was like, yeah, so I have word holes. This is what it looks like.
Tracy Otsuka [00:42:14]:
It doesn't mean I'm not intelligent. It doesn't mean I don't know my subject because my fear was someone was going to ask me something about a book that I spent two and a half years of my life writing and preparing for. And I wasn't going to remember that I even wrote it. I was like, what? I said that? And I don't know, Patricia, not all of us. Most of us, I think, do have poor working memory, but not all of us do. I mean, look at my son. Do you have poor working memory?
Patricia Sung [00:42:40]:
I do. It's terrible.
Tracy Otsuka [00:42:41]:
Yeah. And it really I think that is what causes the anxiety because I don't know about you, but I know they say, Oh, anxiety can be comorbid with ADHD. I've never met someone with ADHD who doesn't have some anxiety. And if you can't rely on your brain, right?
Patricia Sung [00:42:56]:
Doctor. Yeah. That's a
Tracy Otsuka [00:42:57]:
big thing.
Patricia Sung [00:42:57]:
Doctor. Yeah. Doctor. Yeah. That's a big thing. Doctor. Crowder: Yeah. No.
Patricia Sung [00:42:58]:
There's so many times where people will quote back things that I've said on the podcast, and I won't realize that they're quoting me back to me
Tracy Otsuka [00:43:05]:
Yeah.
Patricia Sung [00:43:05]:
Because I don't remember that I said that. Like, I'm like, oh, look at me. I was so brilliant. I was like, Couldn't tell you when I said that. I have no idea.
Tracy Otsuka [00:43:12]:
Or whole podcast episodes, right? Well, oh, my God, this was the most life changing episode. And this is what you talked about. And I'm like, Are you sure it was me? And can you tell me what that podcast is? Because maybe I should redo it if it was that good? Because I don't remember it, so maybe my audience won't.
Patricia Sung [00:43:30]:
And I want people to know that stepping out and doing the things that are scary, especially given that there are parts of our ADHD that make it really hard. I mean, answering your question, like, I have no idea what the question was. I keep talking thinking, like, hopefully, my brains gonna come back to it. And now I'm just honest. I'm like, okay. Remind me one more time. Where was I going? Just like you did. Because Yeah.
Patricia Sung [00:43:49]:
I want people to see what it's like to have ADHD. And it doesn't make my answer any worse because I confirmed that that's where I was going. I was gonna get there eventually, but I'd rather ask the question. And it's okay to not be perfect. And it's okay to circle back one more time and make sure that I'm on track because I wanna give the best interview possible. But I'm also I I don't wanna put on this mask that I'm, like, interviewee, amazing, I don't ever mess up. No. There's plenty of times I mess up.
Patricia Sung [00:44:16]:
Like, when I'm recording my own podcast, I just delete that part out.
Tracy Otsuka [00:44:20]:
Right.
Patricia Sung [00:44:20]:
But it's like, I don't want people to feel like they have to be perfect. That's not why we're showing up here. So thank you for illustrating that. I would say, but I will go, like, to, like, part 2 of this is, like, when you're telling the story about Marcus and how he was struggling and yet you kept showing up to support him even though what he was doing felt very unusual. Or, like, I can't imagine sending my 17 year old off to Europe for 6 weeks. Like, I I don't know. I went to school. I started college at freshman year at 17.
Patricia Sung [00:44:49]:
And I'm like, what on earth my parents thinking? Like, why on earth did they leave me? They let me go to New Orleans of all places on earth at 17. I was like, what? Like, how do you continue to support Marcus when you're watching him being like, I don't know about this, but let's see. Like, how do you have the confidence to know that it's gonna be okay?
Tracy Otsuka [00:45:08]:
I think what you're asking me is how do you have the confidence to let Marcus be Marcus?
Patricia Sung [00:45:15]:
Exactly.
Tracy Otsuka [00:45:16]:
Yeah. And I think that's probably my biggest message, right? That we are the experts on ourselves, and that includes our kids. And whereas he could be immature in a lot of areas, I knew he was not immature at all about his safety, and I knew how much this meant. I felt like we had gotten it wrong a lot with the school system, certainly his whole college career until then, and I owed that to him. And I knew it would be transformative, and I was right because he saw a bigger world. The problem was we're in the sleepy Sonoma County Cowtown, and I could relate to this. He's so ambitious. His sights are so big.
Tracy Otsuka [00:45:57]:
Nowhere to really practice that, to see that in action. Versus if he could go abroad, this would open his eyes to everything that the world could offer him. And I really believe that what our ADHD brains need most is inspiration so that we can develop our own intention for what we actually want in our life. So it wasn't and it never has been with my kids about what do I want for them? What it has always been is how do I make them more of who they are? How do I help them see more of who they are? And we always hear that, oh, ADHD kids are 3 years behind. Sometimes I've heard up to 6 years behind.
Patricia Sung [00:46:36]:
Yeah.
Tracy Otsuka [00:46:36]:
And I don't believe any of that. I really think what it is is we have different brains, so it will take us more time to figure out how to do things in the systems that are already in place. And so we have to figure out, okay, how can I make my brain in the system? Then we know how to do it. So it's more about how can I figure out how my brain works so it can fit into this system that has been developed for it by society? Right? You know, again, I think that when ADHD I think they get really frustrated because they know they're bright, and they tend to be so curious. And they ask the why. I mean, aren't those the brightest kids? The kids who don't just take fact for fact because some adult is telling them, and they're actually saying, well, why? Well, couldn't it be this? Well, how about that? Well, teacher this. And, you know, and I can see how that would be annoying. But isn't that really what learning is? Okay.
Patricia Sung [00:47:34]:
Like, I have so many more questions for you, but I know we need to wrap up. Before we do our lightning round questions, one more question for you because you mentioned perimenopause has really done a number on your symptoms. Do you have any advice for those listening who are entering that phase of life, me included? How do we take care of ourselves knowing that, like, these things are not in our control? So what can we do to support ourselves given that we're we're about to be thrown to the gauntlet?
Tracy Otsuka [00:48:01]:
What do we do? Doctors who seem to really know are saying, unfortunately, medication, hormone therapy, none of that stuff works for my brain. It just makes me anxious. I'm just a weirdo. But for some women, hormone therapy is amazing, but you need to start it early enough. So I would absolutely go run to a clinician who is really well versed in that and better even if they also understand ADHD. Good luck on that. The other thing is movement. I know we call it exercise, but with so I wake up first thing in the morning, and I go to I have a little a room upstairs that I've turned into a gym, and I go work out.
Tracy Otsuka [00:48:41]:
It is how I get my brain going. The science shows that 20 minutes of exercise at 70% of your maximum heart rate is as effective as a course of Adderall and Prozac. So it's huge. Even if you're taking medication, it's going to make the medication even more potent. And, you know, maybe you can take it later and so on and so forth. Sleep. So I don't have a problem falling asleep or staying asleep. My problem is getting into bed.
Tracy Otsuka [00:49:09]:
And I would argue with my husband that it was really the only thing that we ever argued about because he likes to go to bed early. And for him, you know, early is like 11. It's not even that early. It's not like he's going to bed at 8, but I want someone here with me. Right? This is the one time I don't have to do anything. I want him here with me. And it wasn't until I actually do, a webinar for Attitude Magazine on revenge bedtime procrastination. I started researching sleep.
Tracy Otsuka [00:49:35]:
Actually, I researched it for my podcast, and then they asked me to come and do a segment for them when I really understood how important sleep has been. And I've been wrong my entire life. So your REM sleep is directly proportional to your lifespan. And I was like, boom, what? I get no sleep and everybody is different. So I also like, I wear a WHOOP. I wear an Apple Watch. I've got an Oura ring, like I wear all the crap, right? It tells me how my sleep is. But it wasn't until I learned how important it was for my mood, my cognition, my lifespan, like all of it.
Tracy Otsuka [00:50:16]:
Because with our ADHD brains, if we don't understand why, we're just like, well, screw that. Because I have always been the kind of person that doesn't need a lot of sleep. I'm never tired. It's the transitions. Right? I just need to make the movement where I get or take the action, where I get off the damn couch, and I'm usually working and doing a bunch of other things at one time and get into bed because it is life changing. And I'm saying this, you know, having been a sleep denier forever. Nutrition. One of the things that I've realized is I used to be a big sugaraholic.
Tracy Otsuka [00:50:49]:
I always ate healthy, but I like dessert. And I really struggle now. I can't really drink anymore, especially not my favorite thing, which was a cocktail because there's a lot of sugar in that. I can't eat sweets anymore. Carbs are a little bit harder on my body. So I just started to experiment. And, you know, I do a lot of vegetables and and lean protein and weights, Working out with weights.
Patricia Sung [00:51:14]:
So it's all that advice that we don't wanna do. Yeah. This is stuff that's good for Okay.
Tracy Otsuka [00:51:19]:
But this is the thing with the ADHD brain, all brains. Right? We can change our brains. And so I think about working out. Like, I always worked out my entire life. I think the reason I was able to do as well in school as I did is even though I had to work harder is because I dance ballet 6 days a week. I really think that that helped to change my brain. And so with the working out, I always worked out in the evening after everything was done. When I started to read about how important sleep was for the ADHD brain and dopamine and all of that, I decided, okay, I'm gonna try to do that first thing in the morning.
Tracy Otsuka [00:51:51]:
And for me, it started with perimenopause. I started to struggle with mood issues, which I've never struggled with before, certainly anxiety. And I always joked about, I don't have anxiety. I cause anxiety. You know, I'm going around bossing everybody around. But I started to have some serious anxiety. I was always really confident. I started to lose confidence.
Tracy Otsuka [00:52:11]:
And I was like, what can I do to change this? I didn't work or tried at all. And so I started to work out first thing in the morning. And initially, it was really hard because it wasn't what I was used to. You wanna kinda slug around in the morning. But I was able to change my brain. After a couple of doing this, it got easier and easier. And now I literally feel like a robot. I just kinda pop up out of bed, and I go right to the gym.
Tracy Otsuka [00:52:35]:
And I always feel better. So even if I wake up and you know how sometimes you can wake up and you feel kind of angsty, and you don't even know why? Like, why am I anxious? Why am I feeling this, like, malaise? Like, what is going on? I don't know why. It's hormones, I'm sure. A combination of, yeah, hormones, right? And neurotransmitters. And now when I feel that way, I'm never worried about it because I know that the minute I work out, I feel so much better. And I exercise and workout because if you've never done anything in your life and you hate exercise, don't do that. Don't use that word. It's movement.
Tracy Otsuka [00:53:11]:
Go out first. Get the sun in your eyes. You know, it's circadian rhythm, which is important, which helps you go to bed, you know, earlier and just go walk around and just observe, like, how beautiful nature is and the flowers and the birds and, you know, make it a mindfulness session. 10 minutes. Literally, that little thing, when you can start relying on yourself to do that, you start trusting yourself, and then that leads to the next biggest thing. So, yeah, I hate to say it, but I think it all kinds of starts with movement. We need to move our bodies. You know? We're animals, basically.
Tracy Otsuka [00:53:45]:
Right?
Patricia Sung [00:53:48]:
We are. Okay. I would love to keep chatting, but I know I need to let you go. So before we do our lightning round questions, which for these, you just literally fill in the blank. You don't have to explain anything. Would you tell all the moms, how do we find you? How where do we get your book? How do we enjoy, like, this fun, positive Tracy vibe of ADHD for smart ass women?
Tracy Otsuka [00:54:10]:
Probably the easiest way would be to just go to my website. And thank you for asking. It's, adhdforsmartwomen.com
Patricia Sung [00:54:17]:
Alright. Now if you don't listen to Tracy's podcast, go go put that in the queue next. And, lightning round questions. Number 1, the best thing that I read or listened to recently is?
Tracy Otsuka [00:54:28]:
This book. And this is a podcast, so you're not seeing this. It's called Brain Energy by Christopher M Palmer. He's a Harvard professor at Harvard Medical School School psychiatrist. And it is all about how nutrition affects our mental health. It is brilliant. This is where we're going, I'm sure of it.
Patricia Sung [00:54:49]:
K. Number 2, my most boring about me fact is there's nothing boring about me.
Tracy Otsuka [00:54:58]:
Oh my gosh. I live in the country on 6 and a half acres. It's boring here.
Patricia Sung [00:55:08]:
Number 3. When I'm having a rough day, my go to quote song, poem, book, podcast, activity, whatever is
Tracy Otsuka [00:55:15]:
When I'm having a rough day, I call my daughter. Is that okay? It's not a podcast. Or I go out and I take a walk. Okay. So one of the benefits of living in the country is it is physically beautiful here. And I have 2 docs. So the first thing would be to grab Teddy because he's the really friendly one, no matter what. Goldendoodle.
Tracy Otsuka [00:55:36]:
Of course, I grab Motu who's a Shih Tzu, but she's really a Shih Tzu. And we go for a walk.
Patricia Sung [00:55:42]:
K. Number 4. Don't tell anyone I
Tracy Otsuka [00:55:46]:
I started picking my cuticles, and it kind of comes and goes. And I think it's related to caffeine. So I've quit caffeine. It seems to be better. But, yeah, I do that now.
Patricia Sung [00:55:57]:
Number 5. If I had a magic fairy wand for one spell, I would
Tracy Otsuka [00:56:02]:
I would make sure that every woman with ADHD could see just how brilliant her brain really is. And that she has systems and structures. She just doesn't know it because they're different than neurotypical systems and structures.
Patricia Sung [00:56:19]:
And last one. My best feast my best piece of advice for mamas with ADHD is?
Tracy Otsuka [00:56:27]:
Trust yourself. Trust your intuition. You are the best expert on you.
Patricia Sung [00:56:33]:
Tracy, thank you so much for being here and bearing with me through the Internet conundrums. I so
Tracy Otsuka [00:56:40]:
You're bearing with me.
Patricia Sung [00:56:42]:
You know, sometimes, I think that's one of those things that makes us really good. When we have ADHD, like, we're we're able to roll with things a lot of the time that other people would get flustered by.
Tracy Otsuka [00:56:53]:
And we don't give up. It's like we keep nothing back.
Patricia Sung [00:56:56]:
Yes. It's like time number 72. I'll make it work. I'll make it work. Yeah.
Tracy Otsuka [00:57:00]:
Exactly.
Patricia Sung [00:57:01]:
But I so appreciate your wisdom and how much it means to moms who are earlier in the journey to hear, like, it will be okay. And the way that you are is perfect for the way that your child is and that you can together create a really beautiful relationship and honoring both of your ADHDs and allowing your kids to be really successful. So thank you.
Tracy Otsuka [00:57:21]:
Yeah. And the deal too is that your child is the best expert on them as well. So we all just wanna be heard. Right? And we wanna know that we matter. And, ultimately, who gives a crap if there's dishes in the sink and the floor is a mess? And, like, none of that stuff matters. And it's certainly not what kids remember. Right? And I just wanna thank you so much for what you do. So thank you for that.
Patricia Sung [00:57:45]:
Thank you. Well, I look forward to our next chat in the future. I would love to chat again. But for today, thank you. I appreciate it.
Tracy Otsuka [00:57:54]:
Thank you.
Patricia Sung [00:57:56]:
For more resources, classes, and community, head over to my website, motherhoodinadhd.com.