Rumination & ADHD: Can You Stop Obsessive and Negative Thought Spirals? #247
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Do your deep thoughts turn in to thought spirals?
Today we’re talking about rumination: what it is, when it’s a problem, and what to do when your thoughts turn anxious, negative, or obsessive.
I used to spend a lot of my energy what if-ing, worrying, and planning for the 37 possibilities that could possibly occur. If this is you, too, you don’t have to stay in that thought prison!
Let’s talk about how rumination interplays with ADHD, how to use it for your good, and what to do when it turns into a problem.
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Work with Patricia to get unstuck, exceed your goals, and be happy with ADHD.
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Join me in my upcoming workshop: The ADHD Anti-Anxiety Workshop. In less than an hour, I'll teach you 3 ways to stop anxiety and immediately feel more relaxed and calm.
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Patricia Sung [00:00:00]:
Because our minds can be very hyperactive, there's a good chance that you are constantly thinking about something, and sometimes it gets a little out of control. So let's dive into what do we do when our thoughts go haywire, super obsessive, maybe negative. Ah, how do I make it stop? Let's discuss because you don't have to live that way. Are you overwhelmed by motherhood and barely keeping your head above water? Are you confused and frustrated by how all the other moms make it look so easy? You can't figure out how to manage the chaos in your mind, your home, or your family. I get you, mama. Parenting with ADHD is hard. Here is your permission slip to let go of the Pinterest worthy visions of organization and structure fit for everyone else. Let's do life like our brains do life, creatively, lovingly, and with all our might.
Patricia Sung [00:00:54]:
When we embrace who we are and how our brains work, we can figure out how to live our lives successfully, and in turn, lead our families well. At the end of the day, we just wanna be good moms. But, spoiler alert, you are already a great mom. ADHD does not mean you're doomed to be a hot mess mama. You can rewrite your story from shame spiral to success story, and I'll be right here beside you to cheer you on. Welcome to motherhood and ADHD. Before we jump into this week's episode, let's read our review of the week. This one is 5 stars from Nicole, entitled, love you.
Patricia Sung [00:01:35]:
You are such a bright light in this murky world of ADHD and motherhood. Bless you, girl, for always being so kind and selfless as you lead us each week in your episodes. Hope you keep them coming because you're changing lives. Smiley face, hugs, Nicole. Thank you so much, Nicole. It really warms my heart when I know that I'm not just talking to myself in my closet. Like, please tell the people you love them, you love them, appreciate them because it means a lot. It means so much to me to know that someone is listening and it means something.
Patricia Sung [00:02:03]:
Because on the days where I wanna give up, I go back and listen to these and read through all the nice things people tell me so that I can remember it matters what I'm doing. So thank you for the encouragement. I really appreciate it. So mama, if you have not rated the podcast yet, I hope you'll give me 5 stars. Drop a rating in and say hi, so that I know that you're here listening. I love road trips by myself. Or any road trip where I don't have to talk to the person that's in the car with me. I do love other road trips too.
Patricia Sung [00:02:33]:
But the reason I love road trips by myself is because I get such good thinking time when I'm driving. That white space that allows my brain to wander and think about things, I find that if I can dive into that thinking space and muddle through something that I've been, like, chewing on that I haven't sorted out yet, it makes the trip go really fast. I need that time to let my mind wander. And a lot of times, as moms, we don't have time for wandering minds. We have things to do. But when we have ADHD, it's really, really helpful for us to create these, like, white spaces in our day so that our brain can think about things, to wander, to meander, to be free. Because when we don't have space to be able to let our mind wander, our mind, it needs to wander at some point. You have things you need to chew on.
Patricia Sung [00:03:20]:
And if you don't create space for them, your brain will put them wherever there happens to be an open spot. So for example, when you are trying to go to sleep and then your brain starts thinking about all the things that you don't wanna be thinking about when you're trying to fall asleep, sometimes that's because you didn't give your brain space to think about those things earlier. That's when the ideas pop up of like, oh, yeah. I forgot to go to the grocery store. Oh, yeah. What am I gonna do with my deep seated trauma? It's all coming up at 10 PM because it's the first time you slowed down. The first time your brain had space to be like, oh, right. Do you remember all those things that are weighing on us? Don't forget about them.
Patricia Sung [00:03:53]:
They're here. So side note, if you are somebody who has all those things popping up right before bed, keep a notebook there, scribble all the notes down, and deal with it tomorrow. But that way, you won't lose them. You still have to deal with them tomorrow, but they aren't lost thoughts. But when it's topics that are big and we're really diving deep into them, sometimes we can get stuck there, and that hyperfocus really, like, sinks in its teeth. And we get stuck in this, like, hyperdrive that spins us like a tornado or, like, water spinning down a drain, and we get pulled farther and farther in into these nosedives where we're like, sometimes we don't have the capacity to deal with that when those things come up. So this topic of rumination like, first, let me start by defining. Like, ruminating means a deep or considered thought about something.
Patricia Sung [00:04:40]:
So ruminating in and of itself is not bad. It's actually a really good thing. We do need to have deep and considered thoughts about things, especially important things. But when they are consuming us and they are taking us away from being present in the moment or not allowing us to go to sleep, that's when this rumination couples in with hyperfocus and all of a sudden, it's a problem. Because we tend to be more highly sensitive people with more sensitive nervous systems, often we can pick up on things that are out of the ordinary, and then we start worrying. Why did that person look this way at me? Why did the person say it that way? So while sometimes that extra level of perception is lovely and helpful, sometimes it can cause our minds to latch into something and turn it into something that takes up much more space in our minds than we want it to. When we get into this, like, hyper focused level rumination, it takes up a lot of our energy. It takes up a lot of our mental energy.
Patricia Sung [00:05:41]:
It takes up a lot of our spiritual soul energy. And depending on what we're doing in that time of thinking, sometimes, you know, we can figure out the problem more, like, really, like, doing, like, creative problem solving there. But it can turn into a place where it is wasteful and it's not productive because we're spending more time worrying than solving the problem or allowing our brain to look for solutions. So when that rumination turns more, like, into anxiety, that's not helpful. Being able to recognize the difference between when am I using my creative problem solving skills here to find a solution to this issue, and when am I spending that energy in anxiety and worry, and I'm not actually making progress? Being able to know the difference between those two things is really important. When that rumination becomes a constant, like, anxiety builder, when it becomes a negative narrator that is reminding us how much we suck. Why did you say that? What's wrong with you? When those patterns start to emerge, that is a clue for us to know we can do something different. I have spent a lot of time in therapy and coaching, learning to notice what my thoughts are.
Patricia Sung [00:06:57]:
And after I did my coach training around neuroplasticity, I realized, oh my goodness. I don't have to keep doing that. Like, the brain is a predictive organism. Your brain takes, like, all the things that have happened in the past and then guesses what it thinks is going to happen in order to keep you safe. So, like, if you have fallen off a bench as a kid, your brain will know, like, hey. If I'm staying on this bench, I either need to hold on or get down because what happens on benches when we stand, we fall. So that's a way that it keeps us safe. But if it gets to the point where you look to the bench and then you immediately feel anxiety just by looking at the bench, all of a sudden, that predicting while, yes, it's, like, keeping it safe, but, like, it's also creating an issue that wasn't there because you are not standing on the bench.
Patricia Sung [00:07:45]:
You are not actually in an unsafe place. So, like, while yes. Thank you, brain, for keeping me safe. I really appreciate that. We don't have to stay in that predictive place. Like, we are able to, as grown ups, say, Is that the place where I want my thoughts to go, or do I wanna choose something different? So this is a little bit of a tricky concept because things are not 100% in control in your thoughts. There are a lot of things your brain and body do to protect you. So, like, for example, if somebody throws a ball at your face, before your brain fully processes that information, your amygdala is going to make you do that reaction of, like, get out of the way, because, obviously, you don't get hit in the face.
Patricia Sung [00:08:26]:
Before your prefrontal cortex can go in and process all of that of, like, oh, that thing that's flying at my face, Is it a balloon that's not going to hurt me? Or is it a football which would break my nose? Like, your body is going to protect you and move you out of the way before you get hit in the face. So part of our reaction time is built in to keep us safe without anything being processed, because we don't have time for that to keep us safe. But then once things do get processed, it is taking into account the information that already came in and the reaction that we did not process through and this new information and coming up with a new way of doing things. So I wanna make sure that I'm like really clear here that like, you know, a lot of times people will be like, well, it's all in your head, you can control that with mindset. It's like, yes and no, there are some things that happen that we don't have control over, and then there are some things that do. So the things that are happening really fast, maybe we don't have as much control over. But then what happens after that, we do. And this is where we create the choice and allowing our brain and body to know, like, you have the option to not stay in that place of fear.
Patricia Sung [00:09:35]:
So I wanna make sure that I'm sensitive here of, like, this isn't 100% all made up in your head that you have total control over. And it's also not 100%. You don't have any control over it, and you just gotta suck it up. There is a balance here when we're talking about our mind and our thoughts, like both pieces are in play. Both pieces are true. You know, I love the both end. Both are true. There are things that you have control over and other things that you don't have control over.
Patricia Sung [00:09:56]:
So what can we do with the things that we have control over while having grace for ourselves for the things that we don't have control over? So like, for example, I hate when people pretend like they're gonna bop you in the face and they're like, made you flinch. I'm like, well, yeah, dummy. Of course, you did because that's what our eyeballs are supposed to do because they're supposed to protect us from getting stuff in our face. Like, when people make fun of other people for that, like, immediate reaction where, like, they didn't process whether or not they were actually gonna get hit in the face, they just saw something flying at them, like, at their eyeballs, and, of course, their body moves out of the way. And, like, clearly, I'm a child in the nineties here because I'm like, that was, like, one of my least favorite jokes of 1992 or whenever that was popular. Back on chart, Patricia. So, like, this idea that when our brains get caught in rumination, in this deep thought, we have the choice to say, hey. This is a good thing.
Patricia Sung [00:10:47]:
I am spending this time. I'm giving myself space to have time for my brain to wander and chew on something and figure out how do I feel about this, what do I think about this, and find the correct answer or a slew of solutions that you could try to figure out how you're gonna solve this thing while also giving yourself the grace to know that, like, your brain is a predictive organ. It's going to take past history and protect you from what's going on. And so, like, thank you, brain. I appreciate that. And once I process that through, how can I change the way that I think about it so that I'm not stuck in that place of only being reactive with no processing involved? It takes both. I'm not gonna be mad at myself about that. I I'll have grace and forgiveness for myself.
Patricia Sung [00:11:32]:
And then what am I gonna do about it? Like, yes, we're gonna be reactionary, and how do we be proactive in dealing with this? Because staying in this place of worry and anxiety and stress is not good for us. It's not helpful for us. We do wanna make sure that we're protecting ourselves from things that are not good for us. But like we don't wanna stay in that place where our fear and our worry and our anxiety are making the choices for us all the time. And this is a learned skill. It takes time to get the hang of it, but we do have so much control. And I'm even like, I don't even like the word control, because that makes it sound like we're like white knuckle holding on and, like, making things happen. It's that we do have, like, the space to, like, guide and choose.
Patricia Sung [00:12:19]:
Like, there's freedom in there and, like, that you can make the decisions that make sense for you, that you can match what's, you know, your values, and that there's there's so much space for things to be better based on, like, your choices and your guiding. I'm like, really much just another word for, like, in control. That's not I'm like I was talking about the other day in, like, when I was teaching in Lighthouse, and I was like, I don't quite have the right word. If you have a good word for me, tell me. Send me an email. Ping me on Instagram. Somebody help me out. What's the word I'm looking for? It's not control.
Patricia Sung [00:12:49]:
It's like guiding direction. That's as best I got right now. Anyways, where are we talking about? Okay. Let me give an example. The other day, I impulsively said something to someone, and I didn't think, like, my word choice all the way through. And I didn't even notice it at the time. It was probably, like, an hour later. I was like, oh, I don't really like how I worded that.
Patricia Sung [00:13:12]:
Like, given this person's history, like, that probably wasn't the best word choice that I could have used given how I know this person. And old Patricia would have just mold over it, sat in it, cried about it, and be like, oh my goodness. How could I have been so insensitive? I can't believe I said that to this person. Blah, blah, blah, blah. And I would go on and on and on about how terrible it was and how terrible I was for not thinking about it from their perspective and watching the words that I chose. And I could have stayed in this place of ruminating on how dumb that decision was, and, like, why didn't I think about it more carefully? Why didn't I give more consideration? Instead, anxiety can be debilitating, And oftentimes, it's obvious, stage fright, heights, claustrophobia, panic attacks. But anxiety can also be subtle when you can't fall asleep at night thinking about your sick parent or your teen who's struggling making friends. It can be helicoptering around your toddler at the playground or not listening to your partner because you're in your mind spiraling about your kid's school struggles.
Patricia Sung [00:14:18]:
People with ADHD can hyperfocus on these worries to the point where your worry takes center stage. But what you really want to be is present in the moment, more carefree, feeling lighter, having that space and the freedom to be the fun mom that you thought you would be. If you're ready to feel more relaxed and calm every day, join me in my upcoming event, the ADHD Anti Anxiety Workshop. In less than an hour, I will teach you 3 ways to stop anxiety in its tracks. It's time to let go of the grip anxiety has on your happiness and for you to step into the main character role of your everyday life. Cherry on top, it's free for now. It will be a paid course shortly after, so sign up while there's still no charge. Head over to patriciasung.com/workshop and sign up for this event.
Patricia Sung [00:15:04]:
Now, if it is after the event, still head over to that link. It'll have the information on how to get the workshop, and see whatever new workshop I have coming for free. Again, that's patricasong.com/workshop. It's time to say no to worry. The workshop is taking place on January 23rd, that's a Thursday, at 11 AM CST, which is noon EST. How dumb that decision was, And, like, why didn't I think about it more carefully? Why didn't I give more consideration? Instead I don't understand. Like, I definitely did that for, like, an hour, and then I realized, no, Patricia. Stop.
Patricia Sung [00:15:40]:
What can you do about this? You can ask the person, hey. The way that I worded this to you, like, did I upset you? Like, I apologize. I wish I had worded it a different way. Happy to talk about it more. So I chose in that moment to say, I'm not gonna sit here and ruminate about my poor word choice. Instead, I'm going to do something about it by asking this person if I upset them, apologizing even if I'm not sure if I actually upset them or not, and trying to repair it. But, like, this has taken me work to know, like, it is okay that I admit I may have made a mistake. Like that, oh, that's such an idiot I want them to say.
Patricia Sung [00:16:14]:
I may have made a mistake. I didn't know if I had made a mistake at that point because I was assuming what the other person was going to feel by my words without asking them. And I was like, no. I wanna ask. I genuinely want to know because one, this is somebody who I like and respect. I know that they're the kind of person also that would have also done the same thing that I did. They would have apologized, and I have enough respect for that person to be like, I want to do the same. Like, this is the kind of expectation that they set for themselves, and I want to meet them in that place.
Patricia Sung [00:16:48]:
And for me, like, I don't wanna sit here and question whether or not I hurt their feelings. I'd rather just know. If I hurt your feelings, I'm sorry. I hurt your feelings. But it also takes vulnerability for me to step out and say, I am willing to admit, like, I'm wrong and I will apologize. And it also takes, like, who's the person you're talking to? Is that a safe space to have this conversation? Because we do have to consider, like, not everybody is at the maturity level where they can discuss these things. And sometimes it's better just let it lie and move on. I'm working right now on speaking out my opinion on saying what I think is true on being more of me.
Patricia Sung [00:17:29]:
And part of that is saying, I wanna be a better person. I'm willing to be vulnerable here and say, hey, sorry about that. Here's a really awkward apology note. You might not have even thought this was anything. You may have just glazed over my words, but I just want you to know I was concerned about your feelings, and I wanna make sure that I didn't hurt them. So I take you through, like, the step by step of what I was thinking because I want you to be able to see, like, rumination is a complicated thing. Deep thoughts are a complicated thing. It is okay to have deep thoughts.
Patricia Sung [00:18:02]:
It is okay to ponder things. It's okay for me to trust myself and say, hey, that could have hurt that person's feelings rather than gloss over it or pretend it never happened. I'm gonna step out and say, hey, I apologize that my words might have been insensitive and offer that repair. So it's like this part where, like, I have to trust myself to know that, like, you know what? This may have been absolutely nothing, but it was enough there that, like, I wanted to address it because my internal boundary like, the boundary that I'm drawing here is I'm not going to waste my mental energy on what if I hurt their feelings, what if I did and, like and then, like, in combination with the what if, the oh, wow. I'm such a horrible person. I can't believe I said that. I'm definitely not going to that thing next week where they're gonna be at. Like, turning it to this big giant what if molehill, which could have been nothing.
Patricia Sung [00:18:53]:
So rumination also has to do with your internal boundaries. What are you willing to spend your mental energy on, and what are you not willing to spend your mental energy on? What are you willing to spend your heart energy on, and what are you not willing to spend your heart energy on? Because anxiety is spending your energy on what if ing the situations that may or may not be true. And, honestly, usually they're not, because usually anxiety is turning into something way worse. Have you all seen inside out to taking the situation and turning it into something that's totally blown out of proportion? It's not true. It's very unlikely. And like, yes, there is some root that could be true, and that's where our brain is taking this prediction of, like, well, this might happen, it could happen. But what I can do something about is the things that are true and likely. But the things that are not true and not likely, I don't wanna waste my energy on those.
Patricia Sung [00:19:46]:
So I can do something about my true feelings where I worried I hurt this person's feelings. There is the possibility that my words are insensitive, so that's where I wanna spend my energy. Was writing the awkward response back to be like, sorry. Can I repair this? That's what I wanna put my energy into. And then after that, I send it, and then I just have to wait, which is also hard. But I know that I did everything that I could. So now I don't have to use my energy on the what if ing. I put the ball in their court, and if they wanna talk to me about it, they can.
Patricia Sung [00:20:17]:
If they choose not to, they also can do that. But in in that case, it's not my problem anymore because I have offered an apology. If they don't wanna accept it, that's on them. I did my part. So this is where we can draw the boundaries of what we are willing to spend our mental and spiritual or heart energy on, and what can I do that's actually gonna make a difference? How can I actually work toward finding a solution? And then I can let go of the other stuff. It doesn't have to weigh on me. I don't have to carry around that baggage. Because what I've also noticed is that when we just circle around things in our head, they can take on a life of their own.
Patricia Sung [00:20:50]:
When we say out loud the things we're thinking in our head, a lot of times having an objective perspective of someone else listening and being like, wait, you talk to yourself like that? What? Your friend will be like, no. You can't talk to yourself like that. What? You deserve so much better than that. Or if we talk about, like, well, they said this, and then what if they're thinking this? And what if they're never gonna speak to me ever again? I can't leave my house because I what if I see my neighbor on the you know, walking to school? Like, when we turn it into this giant what if and then if and what if in the dominoes, when we bring it into the light and someone else has eyeballs on it, they're like, that's probably not gonna happen. But in our minds, because it was in the dark, it festered and it grew old and created this huge septic problem that didn't actually exist. But when we bring it out into the light and say, hey. I'm worried that I hurt your feelings, which is like a genuine kind of worry. Can I repair this? Then all of a sudden, it's not festering into it.
Patricia Sung [00:21:46]:
And even if the person doesn't like my response, they know that I'm willing to talk about it if they wanna deal with it, and they might not have the capacity to. That's okay. But they know that I tried, and they know that the door is open if they wanna come. But by choosing a different action instead of spinning it around in my head about that dumb thing I said, bring it into light and saying, hey. I'm sorry. All of a sudden, it's not growing into something different. Now if you're someone who's Christian, I recently was at an event where Andy Crouch was talking, and he said anxiety is a future imagined without God. And he's like, I didn't actually say this.
Patricia Sung [00:22:15]:
Somebody else did. He can remember who. But I was like, I loved that quote because it reminded me that, like, for me, like, when I put my faith in God, I don't have to worry about all the other stuff because I know he's got it. So when we let that anxiety fester in the dark becoming septic, that's where that negativity and the obsession can grow as opposed to we bring it out into the light. Now we can actually do something with it. So as we tie this all together, one, you don't have to stay in the place of anxiety and thought spirals and what ifs. You can make different choices. That's what we work on in coaching every time.
Patricia Sung [00:22:53]:
How do we make different choices to do something different? Because we keep doing the same thing, we can't expect a different result. That's why I love neuroplasticity because we can take this automatic reaction we have when, you know, our friend doesn't text us back and then we assume that they're mad at us. We can take that and say, what am I gonna do differently with this? And have a plan so that it's not this death spiral of now my friend hates me. Or when your boss sends you one of those lame emails that's like, we need to talk later. Let's have a mystery meeting. You're like, oh my gosh. I'm getting fired. Instead saying, oh, could you let me know what the agenda is so I can prepare? And you choose a different action rather than, like, drowning in a puddle of self pity, and you ask for the agenda.
Patricia Sung [00:23:31]:
You either will get a response that's like, oh, yeah. It's about whatever blah blah blah blah, very innocuous, or you get the vague response back, then maybe you have something to worry about. But at least you know, and you're not imagining it. So we can do something with anxious thoughts. We can do something when our rumination turns from deep thought to worry. Like, we can learn the distinction between the 2 so that we know, am I working towards a solution, or am I working towards making my self self feel terrible? So, yes, that's number 2. You can choose something different. And number 3 is that our brain needs the white space to be able to think about things.
Patricia Sung [00:24:06]:
Our brains were designed to process and be wonderful creative pieces of our body that make us different than trees and rodents. Like, our brain is designed to do beautiful things. Give yourself those white spaces to be able to think about the things that matter to you, whether it's trying to problem solve whatever's going on in your life or to just let your brain wander and, like, watch the clouds and see what shape they are. But that white space is needed for us. And if we don't give it to our brains, it will take it at 1 AM when you're trying to fall asleep. So while rumination can turn into something that's not good for us and can turn into obsessive or negative thoughts, it doesn't have to. There is really great rumination. And, honestly, I think that's why a lot of people with ADHD are amazing inventors because their brains have deep thoughts about really cool stuff.
Patricia Sung [00:24:57]:
But we can learn the difference, and we can do something about it. We're not stuck that way. Now if you wanna learn more about how to stop anxiety in its tracks, I'm hosting a free workshop after the holidays about the antianxiety workshop. I'm gonna teach you 3 ways to stop anxiety in its tracks. And to be honest, you only need one of them to work. You don't have to learn every single skill I teach you. You need one, but hopefully, you get several good ideas out of there, and it'll be less than an hour. So it's free for right now.
Patricia Sung [00:25:21]:
I'm gonna turn it into a paid course later. So go sign up all 3. It's gonna be a really tangible way to do something different with your anxiety. So go sign up. Patricasung.comforward/workshop. And if you're listening to this and it's already after the holidays and that workshop already happened, go to that same link anyways because, 1, you can see how to get that replay. And 2, I'm gonna be hosting free workshops regularly because I really love teaching, and I wanna hang out with you. So see see whatever the next free workshop is.
Patricia Sung [00:25:49]:
Alright. So go sign up.patriciasung.com/workshop. Let's stop that anxiety in its tracks and learn how to do something different because you deserve to be happy every day. I'll talk to you soon, Successful Mama. For more resources, classes, and community, head over to my website, motherhoodinadhd.com.