Help Your Child Sleep Better with Heather Erickson #230
Struggling with sleep at your house?
Today’s guest is Heather Erickson of Sleep and Beyond Consulting. Heather is a sleep coach that helps parents support their children for better sleep.
No matter if you have a big kid who fights sleep or you’re pregnant with your first nugget, Heather shares a ton of strategies on how to make bedtime easier for everyone.
We dove into how to create a soothing sleep sequence for your children, how we can prepare in pregnancy for the sleep deprivation coming, and why we even need sleep in the first place. These sleep principles are fitting for all ages. Most importantly, Heather is full of grace and shame-free for moms who are ready to throw in the towel.
Let’s rest easy, mama!
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Watch this 2 min video of our last ADHD moms retreat! You’re invited to our next trip: October 11-13, 2024!
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Links Mentioned in this episode
Stop Medusa Mom in her tracks with these 10 tips to calm down before you lose your cool!
Watch (or read) the free video here: https://www.patriciasung.com/medusa-mom
Heather Erickson 00:00
That's how my mom was or my aunt or my dad. And that's how I'm going to be now too. It is not an inherited thing. Also, we cannot force ourselves to go to sleep.
Patricia Sung 00:10
Are you overwhelmed by motherhood and barely keeping your head above water? Are you confused and frustrated by how all the other moms make it look so easy. You can figure out how to manage the chaos in your mind, your home, or your family. I get your mama, parenting with ADHD is hard. Here is your permission slip to let go of the Pinterest or the visions of organization and structure fit for everyone else. Let's do life like our brains do life creatively, lovingly, and with all our might. When we embrace who we are and how our brains work, we can figure out how to live our lives successfully, and in turn, lead our families. Well, at the end of the day, we just want to be good moms. but spoiler alert, you are already a great mom. ADHD does not mean you're doomed to be a hot mess mama, you can rewrite your story from shame spiral to success story. And I'll be right here beside you to cheer you on. Welcome to Motherhood in ADHD.
Patricia Sung 01:17
Hey there successful mama. Welcome to today's guest episode with Heather Erickson. Heather is a sleep coach at Sleep and Beyond Consulting. And she's also a member of our community in Successful Mama Meetups. Now, a few months back, we were in a like chit chat group in Successful Mama Meetups. And another mom was like, Hey, I know it's not what we're doing here. But he's okay. If I asked you a question about sleep. And I was like, Well, hold on, let me check with Heather because like, I'm not trying to make you work here. You're showing up for support, you know? And she was like, No, I love talking about it. And she gave the best advice to this other mom. And I was like, like, this is why this community matters.
Patricia Sung 01:53
Like, this is why we started the community is for other moms to get together and lean on each other. And I'm just like, Oh, that was so sweet of her. So then a couple months later when she's like, can I be a guest on the podcast? I was like, Oh, heck yeah. Like, this is such a huge struggle for moms is sleep, especially when you have kids with ADHD. Now we're going to dive in today from you know, starting with big kids and how we can help set them up for success in their sleep.
Patricia Sung 02:19
And moving into that transition. Because transitions are hard for us. We also talk about being a mom with a baby, or an expectant mom, like how do we prepare ourselves for dealing with the newborn phase when we aren't getting any sleep because sleep deprivation is a real thing. And diving into the practical things that we can do to make sleep easier for your family. So no matter if it's you that struggles with sleeping, or some of your adorable humans in your house, this episode will give you practical tips to make that baby step towards having sleep be a little bit easier. Let's welcome Heather Erickson to the show. How are you doing this morning, ma'am?
Heather Erickson 02:57
Hi, Patricia. Good. I'm doing good. Thank you.
Patricia Sung 03:01
All right. So when we think about sleep, this is such a sore point for so many people with ADHD, obviously, like, sleep is different through all the different stages of life. If you were to like, look at the wide variety of people that you've worked with, and all the sleep problems that are going on, is there one thing that jumps out at you, you're like, ooh, if only people knew this, about sleep, it would make things so much easier. Mm
Heather Erickson 03:33
hmm. Yeah. So there is for sure. And that is to do with all the things that I help moms set up for their babies to go to sleep. So there's a lot more to it than just telling a baby to go to sleep, right? There are ways to set so many things up to be such a good situation and such a good environment for the baby. And those are the things and so all the things that work for the baby work for everyone else, too. So those are the things that I would like people to know for sure. So that we
Patricia Sung 04:09
can, no matter how old we are, create this environment that makes sleep easier. And it's not necessarily like there's no magic answer. But that combination of preparing everyone to move into like this different phase. Yes, is a magic. I'm like, Oh, I'm like I think I'm like I really love my bed. And like, I'm sure that has something to do with it. So let's, let's dig in. So if we think about those ways that we want to set up for our amazing asleep environment, how can we help create that space of like, Hey, we're transitioning because like sidenote, a lot of times with ADHD, like the hardest part for us is that transition point of like, whatever we were doing before and now we're slowing down and shifting from doing to not doing and this is a really big struggle for a lot of us with ADHD, then obviously babies don't even know how to human yet. So how do we create that environment to let them really peacefully move into sleep?
Heather Erickson 05:10
Yeah, so some of this is connected to how our brains work. And so it's easy peasy. But before I get into that, I want to say, I wanted to tell you the difference between how we would look at it from an older kids. So I would want to tell you what we do with older children first,
Patricia Sung 05:31
okay, well, let's start there, then big kids when we doing
Heather Erickson 05:34
especially, I don't know if any other mums out there have a feeling I'm not the only one, that it works better if there's a signal or a sign that tells them it's bedtime, rather than any words coming from my mouth. So that's a great trick to use. And one that does both things. It does that also, it's helping their brains have a signal that it is ready, it is time for your body and your brain to get ready for sleep. And that is turning the lights off or down.
Heather Erickson 06:10
So especially if you have a child that is extra active or takes longer to calm down, sometimes that can be connected, I think to anxiety, which can be connected, there's connections, right? So they will try it for your kids. So maybe you only need half an hour ahead. But the turning down of the lights lets them know we're going to transition into that time plus it sends a message to their brain, that it is going to be time to sleep. It's the darkness and dim light. It needs to be that way for a while. So you know, just flipping off the lights, as you know, it's not enough. So a
Patricia Sung 06:54
10 second warning system. Okay, got it.
Heather Erickson 06:56
Nice. So for my family, we would do that we had been doing that about an hour ahead of time. So sometimes depending on the season, that means drawing curtains, or if you don't have dimmers, it needs taking light bulbs out of some of the light fixtures. If they have too many and are too bright. There's ways around it or putting as long as your light bulb isn't hot, putting a towel over the lampshade think things like this, that you just do that once and then that Job's kind of done. And that's how it is. It's not it's not always pretty, but it works. Firstly. So
Patricia Sung 07:29
creating that shift in the light. I'm assuming there's some kind of science behind why our brains like connect in. So why does that I'm like I like I'm like, I want to jump into the science. But I don't know how sciency we're getting, like, what does that do for us? Like, what's the cause? We don't know why then we're like, why am I doing this? And I'm not doing it. So like, why is that so important for us to shift into a lower light environment as we are moving into sleep?
Heather Erickson 08:00
Yes, the why. So I didn't realize that that probably is an ADHD trait of mine. But I am a person who also likes to know the sciency part. But I usually don't share the sciency part because I am usually a sleep nerd, right. I am the one who cares about the science. But in this case, I will let you know that this is about boosting your natural melatonin. So that's what it helps do is to boost your natural melatonin. Yeah, that's the science behind that.
Patricia Sung 08:31
I'm sure like most of the time, if you're sleep deprived Mom, you're like, I don't really care about the science. I just need this kid to go to sleep man. This but right now we're not in panic mode. So now I can be like ooh. So things like you know, lowering the lights are gonna get us to get our bodies moving in scientifically in the right direction towards sleep. What else can we do to support our big kids in moving into sleep?
Heather Erickson 08:54
Yes. So for big baby adult anybody, we're going to use warps. So we want to warm up the body ahead of bed probably 20 minutes to half an hour before and and then go to sleep in a cooler room. So that change in body temperature is another thing that does boost our natural melatonin. I also wonder if people know that we have natural melatonin or everyone thinks it is something we just buy off the shelf. You know, anyhow. Not everyone. So I feel like I don't I think with the things I hear today, I wouldn't know if I wasn't a sleep consultant is what I'm saying. So that naturally boosts that melatonin and melatonin helps us go to sleep and stay asleep.
Patricia Sung 09:41
Okay, so moving into low light, creating warmth and then coolness to that change in body temperature. What else would be a really great way for us to help our kiddos move into sleep?
Heather Erickson 09:53
Yeah, moving into more darkness away from the light, warmth and then sleeping in the cold room. Well The thing I wanted to explain at the beginning, but why would I go in order when I'm an ADHD or if
Patricia Sung 10:04
I'm like, I assume there was a reason I think I'd get that
Heather Erickson 10:09
routine. So in sleep, it helps also. So you're always going to do the same thing, or you're going to try to, and you're not going to beat yourself up. If you don't do that, you're going to try to do the same thing each night. So that your kid, it becomes the routine really. And this can happen for babies, when we do the same thing over and over. And they, they kind of they can know what to expect next, when we've done it enough. And it's a really cool filling for them. Because they're like, I guess this was the next thing and it was and then it's also soothing for them. Really safe feeling.
Heather Erickson 10:43
Yeah. So that happens for all of us. And it really can be a like inside their mind and body. It just, it's just sending a message like this is time for sleep. And so your routine doesn't have to be too long. 20 minutes is ideal. Again, if you're doing this for two hours, don't like, you don't need to beat up on yourself. Or if you're doing trying to do it for two seconds. Please also don't beat up on yourself. Every family is different, unique, and so are you. And I like for parents to consider what works for them.
Heather Erickson 11:15
And what there's so many factors, you know, things about your own schedule, and what time work is or school or daycare or all those things, you know, and what we're doing in the season. So people often do different things in the summer, man, we're looking forward to summer than they do, you know, other times of the year to or Christmas. And we cover those kinds of things in my, in my communities about how to deal with that.
Patricia Sung 11:40
So as we think about setting up routines, which can be hard for us, is the point of the routine to do the same, like the same order of things, or is the point of the routine to be done at the same time of day. Like where's the goal? And it maybe it's both but where's the part that we want to hone in on for like those of us who are like, ah routines, that's hard. Where's the point where we want to, like focus our efforts, I guess, so that, like, you're not gonna have the perfect routine, it's not gonna go the way you want it every day. But if I'm looking at like my bare minimum of how I set up this routine for my kids, where are my like, bare minimum markers, like what are the most important things that are going on? So that for the mom who's like, you know, you're like, Dude, we have no, we have no routine whatsoever. Like, we're not trying to wake up tomorrow and be new people. We want to build that. But it's got to start somewhere. So like, Where would we start so that it feels more doable?
Heather Erickson 12:27
Yeah, I would definitely start with one thing. And that's something that we love doing to at sleep and beyond is taking baby steps for us adults also. That's the way I have found that I've gained traction or made any changes by doing tiny, tiny ones and having people cheer me on a little bit. Like the community behind me say, you know, reminding me to do it or saying you can you can do this other or you're doing it sometimes we don't notice the good things that we are doing until we tell someone else or they pointed out to us and so that is why I don't know what I was gonna say.
Patricia Sung 13:02
No, so the where's that baby step? To start? Are we focusing on the same time? Are we focusing on like the same order what
Heather Erickson 13:10
I was gonna say? So I like to call it a soothing sleep sequence when I'm referring to the routine before bed.
Patricia Sung 13:18
I like that sleep sequence.
Heather Erickson 13:20
Yeah, so PC thing sleep sequence. So like you asked, yes, it doesn't need to be an order, ideally. So still, if something happened, that it didn't work that way, that's not the end of the world, you just move. That's how you do it tonight. Tomorrow, you see if you can do differently, but I would start, especially when starting new things is tricky. I would start just with the likes, it's such an easy one. I would start just with a lay and see if it makes somewhat of a difference. And you can talk to your children and and you can say how it the darkness helps your brain to feel more sleepy. And I don't know if I noticed while I do now, because I've been doing it so long with the darkness. So I need to do it for myself. And I guess the only caution is that when you have really little ones and you're really tired when you dim that light for them, you are going to be so tired to so when you come out of that. You maybe want to turn the lights back on for yourself. Yeah, yes.
Patricia Sung 14:21
I remember that. Especially my kids were in that phase of like you were staying with them for a while before you leave and like I would be so tired by the end. I'm like why am I so tired and you're still awake? Because we were creating this soothing sleep sequence. Yeah, and I was the one being sued asleep they're like let's go to that. That's funny. I'm like there's so many times I was like I could just fall asleep right now but no, I gotta get up and brush my teeth and munches and stuff.
Heather Erickson 14:47
So yeah. So if you have to if you need to get up if you can't, you know stay relaxed and and do your own thing in the evening then you you might want to Yeah, right in the lights and that They'll help pick you up. So it's a sequence. And what about the time the time can be different. So a lot of people also would think that a bedtime has to be this time all the time. But the truth is that most of the children in probably I can easily say North America are not getting enough sleep for what is recommended by our pediatricians. So they have come up with guidelines or guidelines in in Canada and the US that are very similar and made by pediatricians, a group of them came up with it.
Heather Erickson 15:31
And since I've been doing this work, it has changed and they add more, you know, even with more screens and more bright lights, and those things do interfere with sleep, it interferes with our ability to go to sleep, but also staying asleep. So you might be somebody that says, Oh, I can do that. And then I go to sleep, then you wake up, we forget that sometimes that can be the reason still waking up, because your eyes are on a bright screen. TVS better like a TV better than, you know, your phone or tablet. And if anybody has, you know, if you go to the movies, that kind of screening it a projector screen is actually best. So it's just worth knowing if you you know, depending on what you're doing. I
Patricia Sung 16:21
didn't think about that. But like the light is shining on the wall versus the light shining at you. I'm like, Oh, yeah. Okay. So when were you said you want it to move from big kids. First, is there anything else we need to know about big kids before we move to the next,
Heather Erickson 16:37
I did call it a soothing sequence. But definitely you want to put things in there. This is another thing that will help motivate the both of you is that if you have things in there, that are things that you like, and your child likes, you know, don't do something that you're going to dread like it just because somebody else down the street always reads a book for bed and, and that's not your jam, don't do it. Maybe you have a little song that you love, maybe you just want to hum a tiny tune. There's so many different things. And I give so many ideas in my ending bedtime battles in a new class that I'm offering anyhow,
Patricia Sung 17:15
so we don't have to do it like everybody else does. The key is not that it needs to start at a specific like, it's not like if we don't start at 702 we have we ruined it, it's about the sequence, and creating these soothing things that both feel soothing for you and your kid. Mm hmm. Any other. That's right tips for big kids,
Heather Erickson 17:37
the just about the time, some of the time. The timing, you know, depends on your own schedule. But also it depends on what we do in the daytime. So again, if you have an active child that outside air, fresh air and movement, so what they're doing activities or exercise, but basically outdoors and movement can make them sleep, go to sleep better stay sleep better, and you might need an earlier bedtime for those days that they have a lot of that. And if you're trying to change bedtime or do anything that's going to set them up for success if you really run them hard outside
Patricia Sung 18:17
doesn't matter what time of day we do the activity in comparison to our sleep.
Heather Erickson 18:23
It does, we want to do that we want to keep it away just like the screens, we want to keep it away from bedtime, about two hours, ideally, for screens and exercise even three, but like you're not going to stop your kid from running around the living room, if that's what they're doing after supper or you know, if you're Yeah, just just not don't make a point of doing it. But a couple hours before bed ideally.
Patricia Sung 18:48
So ideally, we're looking at a little bit before Okay, what's next man?
Heather Erickson 18:54
Let's talk about my favorite group to work with which is moms who are expecting a baby might not be their first baby even could be could be their third whichever but the mums who are expecting I love being able to work with them because this is a way that I can prevent the most trouble and not in disagreement in parenting as a whole. So you know when I when I was able to get my children sleeping way back I got my baby sleeping and it turned our world around it was like a night and day difference.
Heather Erickson 19:31
nd you know, our baby was just so much happier content we hadn't seen much contentment yet like and so the sleep made a huge difference, which also motivated us to keep sleep you know as a priority because it just did make such a difference and so that was awesome. And then I just kind of thought like okay, like sleep is the beyond the unknown. I have the you know, I I have the world by the tail. This is this is a cat's ass like, no problem. However, that's not how life continued. And so once I, you know, I had to go, I always wanted to offer the communities the way that I am right now. But sometimes I was in the thick of it too much to be able to do that.
Heather Erickson 20:24
So I had to have a little bit of time, somewhat looking back and see what were the things that I learned along the way that made this motherhood journey so much easier. And that's why I've got community in, in within my classes. So I know from from being in your community, Patricia, I, I love that support, I need it. And I've been in a few groups where I've had like a great, knowledgeable, supportive leader. And that makes all the difference for me. So I don't want anybody to miss out on that piece of it. And
Patricia Sung 21:02
I think it's important, like when you were saying like that community peace matters, not just from you having people to talk to but also that there's people around the get the struggles that you're going through, and then you don't feel alone. Like if you feel like you're the only one who has the baby that won't sleep or the only four year old that won't sleep, it's really isolating, because you're looking around going, well, how come everybody else can figure this out? Not me. But you're not looking, you're not actually talking to everybody else. We want to find those people who are also dealing with the same things, anything is a mom, it's even more helpful to be like, because it's not just your problem. It's your kids problem, then you feel like oh my gosh, I'm ruining my kid because you can't.
Patricia Sung 21:40
No, this is something that so many people are dealing with, when we find the others they get it. Then it's like, oh, well, not only do I feel seen, I feel heard. I know that I'm not alone in this. We know that it's not you. But you also get that whole community of great ideas. And they're like, Well, have you tried this? This works for my kid? And it's not the usual like, Well, yeah, everybody already tried putting blackout curtains on the wall, like, what do we really need to do here? I need to I need advanced level advice not works for 90% of the kids advice. Like that piece of it, I think is so important, especially when you're a mom who's not sleeping because your kids not sleeping.
Heather Erickson 22:20
Yeah, you need that connection, for sure And sometimes it's to commiserating together, or like I mentioned before, sometimes it's congratulating each other or celebrating the things that aren't going well and noticing those tiny things, tiny steps that are getting you moving forward. Yeah,
Patricia Sung 22:38
yeah. To have someone celebrate with you, like, hey, my kid slept for, like, if you're like comparing like me, the only work will go up four times instead of six times other people will be like, what, four times and then you don't feel celebrated. But when you've made progress from six to four times, like, this is a big win for us and having those people around you to be like, yeah, yeah, we get it. We're here for you. Like that's really?
Heather Erickson 22:59
Yeah, for sure. And don't, yeah, please don't feel alone. If sleep trouble is happening for you. This is common this is this is a thing and it's nothing that you did or didn't do with with new babies. That's something I want. It's awesome for I think the moms to know ahead of time is that it doesn't matter what you do. Your baby like they when they're new, they're meant to be weak, and sleep day and night. So if somebody tells you they've got their days and nights mixed up, well, I guess they do, but that's the way they're wired. That's who they're supposed to me.
Heather Erickson 23:36
And it's a safety mechanism. And, and that's okay. And if you're, if you're a baby to sleep longer than then what I'm saying here, that's okay, too. Yeah, there's no, there's really no need to panic and everybody's situation is so can be so unique. So knowing that your baby is going to be awake, and it's hard, it's hard to not sleep, we can't, we can't really cheat, we can't change it about the baby. But we can encourage you to look for different supports or maybe ways of doing things that can alleviate and give you a little bit more rest. So if you know what to expect, then as a new mom, you're just not You're not as much sitting there wondering you kind of know what's going to happen with sleep and you kind of know that okay, this could be hard but there's things I can do to make it better.
Heather Erickson 24:28
And there's people I can reach out to for help if I need it. And there is hope to just know there's hope because come half a year in so once your baby is around six months old, and I know happier does sound so long, but once you become a mom of older children, it's a it's it's a short time but don't let people tell you they enjoy every minute because we all know that. That is not encouraging to the mom that's in it. then you know that at six months, that baby could be sleeping through the night have everything set up great for them. There's that possibility. So
Patricia Sung 25:09
as a mom who's expecting what are what are the things you're like, Oh, if I could just tell you like, one thing or two things, what's going to get the mom who's expecting off on the right foot to be set up? Because like we think about it, like when we're I don't know about you, but like when I was expecting I feel like I read a bazillion pregnancy books but I didn't read enough information about like, what was gonna happen after actually had a baby like I was so focused on being pregnant that I forgot like, oh, right, there's a baby coming in. I need to learn how that happens. Like my pregnancy. I should have been paying attention to later.
Patricia Sung 25:42
So like, what are the things that is expected mom can do to prepare for the fact that she's not going to sleep a whole bunch in the first few months? Like how do I how do we set that mom up for success? What do you do when you're really struggling to calm down when you're dysregulated, and your brain is offline? When Medusa mom is about to rear her ugly head, and you don't want to yell at your kids again, but you also desperately need some time and space to yourself? Well, you're in luck, Mama, because I've got a free video resource waiting for you. I'm sharing my top 10 tips for what to do when you're losing your cool and you need to resign each of these things you can do in under a minute with no fancy prep, so that you can calm down enough to make a different choice than exploding like a volcano on everybody in the vicinity.
Patricia Sung 26:31
Now since there's a video, you can watch what I do for easier practice. And of course, there's audio plus captions to read it. I also have a little cheat sheet underneath of all the ideas. So you can grab that list, sticking your phone somewhere so that I'm a time where you're like totally freaking out, you can go that list and quickly pick the idea that's going to help you calm down in that moment, head over to patriciasung.com/calm. That's ca LM and download your free video on how you can keep your cool when you're overwhelmed. That's patriciasung.com/calm. Because you can learn how to take care of yourself so that you can take care of your family.
Heather Erickson 27:12
One of the things I talked amongst about so this is kind of the Beyond part of my business sleep and beyond. Because this is not about sleep, but I teach them a little bit about our nervous systems. And isn't it odd that we have a baby things are set up so that if we hear a baby cry, it makes us move. That's something we can't control. It's something wired into us that we hear cry, and we better go for it. And so it can also put us into fight or flight basically like it's a, it's a panic, that's a natural thing that our nervous system. But we can make that easier on ourselves.
Heather Erickson 27:52
So that's some of the things I go through with the moms. So if you're someone listening right now who has a new baby, and maybe you maybe you hear your baby stir and you jump, but you don't need to. So the best thing that baby needs is for you, when you do come over to them to come in a nice, calm, soothing way to them, and you're not hurt, they're in a safe place. You're not hurting them by just not rushing it. So I am guessing I don't know for certain because there were there was a lot of sleeplessness, and that affects your memory, but I am pretty sure that when it was our first I likely practically ran to the crib or the wherever they were. And I'm concerned, right like and now what am I gonna do when I get there, but but the easiest thing for the baby is just for them to pick up on because they do pick up on it that the mom is doing good and she's all right.
Heather Erickson 28:56
And we're okay that sends them a message that everything's going to be fine. So a big piece of what I want mums to know is that we need to be good to ourselves, talking to ourselves in a positive way. Even encouraging yourself. I thought I did this until it was pointed out to me like just listen first step is kind of listen to what you do say to yourself, oh my and I think a lot of us do it and it's just not encouraging. So bit by bit again baby steps, you can start to change that. So you are this baby's mother, you can use your intuition. You know what to do. And you can handle this and do things that help yourself, feel calm, do things for you that are good for you when you can so that you can be enjoying this time with your baby and and they pick up on it too. Like
Patricia Sung 29:54
Heather Where were you when nine years ago you In bed, I mean, granted, I have learned a lot in the last, you know, decade about emotional regulation. Like, that's a lot of like what my coaching is around and it's like, my first was not a sleeper. Like I felt like he cried all the time. Like I felt like every time we had food, it's like somehow his so baby nostril smelled food, and then I would never get to eat a hot meal because then he was hungry. Like it just felt so hard. And I think about like, how I must have shown up to soothe him with my panic. You know, he was a really loud sleeper. And so every time he would grunt, I would wake up.
Patricia Sung 30:34
And in a panic of thinking something was wrong in here, I am going to him in my panic trying to get him to calm down. I'm like, Oh, I wish I had known. I wish I had known that. I wish I'd done that. I didn't even cross my mind of how, as mom, like, how do I calm my kids down? It's by sharing my calm. Yes, not my panic. And obviously babies are they are connected to us in that way of like the physical closeness and everything because there's not the language to communicate with them in the same way like, like, oh my goodness, oh, mind blown emojis here it would have been I'm like, also not mad at old me. If you're listening.
Patricia Sung 31:15
And you're like, oh, my gosh, I do this. Like, when you're really struggling as a new mom. And things are hard. Everything is hard. And so I don't want to like create that, like guilt and shame built up as like, Oh, okay. When I when we know this, what can we do about it? Because we can't show up commonly for our kids when we're really struggling. So how do we take care of you, so that you can be that person who arrives at 3am? And is calm like me? Nobody likes waking up at 3am. But arriving with that calm? I'm like, Oh, how much faster? Would he have gone to sleep than me stomping in and being like, oh my gosh, I'm like, oh, man, Patricia 10 years ago really could have used this information.
Heather Erickson 31:52
Yeah. And it couldn't be all like, and there's still many moms out there who could so I didn't know about co- regulation. That's what we've been talking about just now until much later. Feeling more like, What on earth am I going to do here and then that was the biggest piece rather than knowing any, any other tips like of discipline or anything teaching your child anything? This is the biggest piece and that's why I want moms to be able to practice it before their baby even comes along. Oh, ah, you know about the grunting in the noisy sleepers. There's some babies are some babies aren't. And that is something that we don't learn much about. And there is no need to panic about that, like you said, but how would you know then.
Heather Erickson 32:42
And you can now know, sorry, Patricia 10 years late back. Likely a light sleep. So the first stage of sleep is so light that they can make sounds in it. So it may be that he just grunted because he was rolling over and going right back to sleep or he'd never even came out of that lightest stage of sleep, and still makes those noises. Kind of like maybe when the grandpa in the home or the dad in the home says like I wasn't sleeping because they think they heard everything what was on the TV. snoring. It's so that kind of gives you a good example of how the sleep can be light without us knowing they might not look asleep even. So that's another reason not to panic. So say your baby isn't a noisy baby or they are either one and they stir or making noise where you think a penny to go to them. You might not pick them up right away or touching you might just check it out and see oh, they're just going they're just kind of moving a bit and they needed to stretch and now they're sleeping again. They don't need me right now. So no need to panic. So
Patricia Sung 33:56
when we think about sleep as a whole going back to like how we talked about earlier like ADHD errs, have to know why we all know we're supposed to sleep we know sleeps important, but it's really hard for us. Can you give us this? Like, what are some little nuggets that we can hold on to of like, if I'm not if I'm somebody who struggles with sleeping or don't like sleeping? Why am I even bothering this? Like, why is this important? And how is it helpful to us no matter age because like this is actually something that I'm working on right now is my sleep and I'm like, I need I need more information because it's not coming together here like why am I
Heather Erickson 34:30
why does it? Yeah, I love that. So I guess I would start off by saying I was not a good sleeper as a child and I never enjoyed it probably until I probably never wanted to sleep until I had babies actually. So that would be a new ish thing in my life to similar similar age of children. And so what you need to know is that there's hope. I also like to say right away that it's not an inherited thing. So sometimes you hear Oh, when my grandma she was up, you know what, whatever, ungodly hour, steadily and that's how my mom was or my aunt or my dad. And that's how I'm going to be now too. It is not an inherited thing. Also, we cannot force ourselves to go to sleep.
Heather Erickson 35:18
So you make a good point, every stop into a room and say, like, like it's like, yeah, and we can't make ourselves either. All we can do is look at ways to calm ourselves. And again, it's baby steps, and it's been easy on ourselves. Maybe you can feel calm for one minute, maybe it takes you 20 minutes to feel calm, there's different things that you can do. I know, for my, I think I should say ADHD and my body, I do need to move in the day. And I do need outside to have my best sleeps. So I got into a tiny habit of doing that, like 10 minutes. And then lately, things got super busy. And I wasn't able to do it. And someone I was working with gave me permission to look out the door for one minute. And I'm like, that is fresh air.
Heather Erickson 36:10
And that is a change. And that's a little tip you can use for regulating babies to and ourselves is just changing the spot and, and really, outdoors does help us that way, too. Okay, so how, why is it important? That's the That's kind of scary part. But I don't want to scare people with it. It's good to know. So without sleep, you know, sometimes sleep was used as a tactic in war. Like, it's an awful punishment. And so we without sleep, it affects our memory, our mood, our ability to keep our patients. Super cool. Did I see memory? Yes. And so all those things, our emotions, our mental health, how we learn it, just as affecting everything. And when all that is having trouble together, it can be really tricky for us. And I also had learned back back when that there was a study done to see that actually, lack of sleep was contributing to postpartum anxiety and depression, more so than the hormone difference. So then it means some interesting things because it could be whoever the caregiver is, could be an adoptive mom, foster mom, could be dad. It's like affecting everyone that lack of sleep. And so our physical bodies we have no we have far less energy, we get our immune systems built up with our sleep, and also babies growing. Babies growing, they grow. That's when their growth hormone is released. Is that night
Patricia Sung 37:58
of kids too. Yeah. So it really touches everything.
Heather Erickson 38:02
Yeah, we don't think of it as a need, like we do food. But it is so much so similar. Yeah, like,
Patricia Sung 38:11
I mean, everything you've pretty much covered every part of your well being there of like, Man, I really had to work on this.
Heather Erickson 38:21
And again, oh, yeah, I didn't, what else can I say about, you know, just have tiny little goals. So if you're somebody who's up late, go to sleep. If that's your goal, if you need to go to bed earlier, just change it by five minutes tonight. 10. Or if you can do 15 Don't think, Oh, I've been up till 130. And now I need to make this 10 Just 15 minutes at a time each night. And if you miss a night, who cares. And if you change that up a little bit, who cares but just notice the progress of going down each night. And if you're somebody who does not like your bed, we don't want you to be in a situation where you don't feel like your room is for sleep you're staying in it so long a week in the middle of the night or going to sleep that you feel you no longer fond of it, it doesn't feel like a place to sleep.
Heather Erickson 39:14
So before if you can do that if that has happened and do this now or try to do that do this before that happens is that find a different spot in your house to sleep have it be cozy and warm you know so you want a let's say good blanket there. If a pillow matters to things like this where you can easily either take it what you need or it's there and keep the lights all damn of course and go there and do something boring. Like re reading a book or something like a pay it needs to be a paper needs to be a real book right because you can't see the with lights. Something that's still unsettling so book doesn't necessarily They have to be boring, but it would help
Patricia Sung 40:03
the instruction manuals.
Heather Erickson 40:06
And then when you start to feel sleepy, go back to your bed. And just be easy on yourself. Notice what it feels like to feel relaxed. And bit by bit you can build on that.
Patricia Sung 40:18
I think the like if I sum up today, it feels like things like understand that your family is different, your family's unique, little baby steps move us forward, and that there is hope there that it can be better. And that we don't have to stay where we are, no matter what age your kid is, whether you don't even have a kid yet. There are ways that you can make this piece of life that's clearly required. A little bit easier.
Patricia Sung 40:44
Yeah, that's right. Okay, before
Patricia Sung 40:47
we go, I have three things. One, I forgot to ask you the question from the community. So I'm gonna ask that first. Hey. So, Rachel, in the successful Mamma Mia Deb's community asked about your thoughts on melatonin? Like, are you familiar with any, like new research that's coming out? Or are there certain ones that would be better for ourselves? Or our kids? And then is there anything else? Like, I mean, you talked a lot about like, one of the things we can do. But you know, it's just like, it is a really controversial piece of parenting of like giving your kids melatonin what they need to sleep. But where do you advise parents and this and like, granted, we already said every kid is different. And you're you and I are about non doctors? Is this a tool worth using? I guess? And are there any things we need to keep in mind? Yeah, so
Heather Erickson 41:32
keep in mind that the studies on it are limited as far as the use of it in children. And so the Melatonin is a hormone and we don't really know what the long term effects are. And so I would be on the cautious end of it, especially when there are things we can try, that can boost our own natural melatonin. However, if you if you've tried all the things and you've, you know, and I think that's what I'm what I've heard doctors recommend, too, if you have tried all the things and do see a sleep consultant, then see what you can do. But the melatonin, lots of people have done it and you don't need to be hard on yourself. If you've done that, who knows, they could find out that it is fine. We just just just the unknown for now.
Heather Erickson 42:22
And the light when we talked about lights, that is a really important piece of it keeping the light out considering what things are in your child's room that have a light on it. So sometimes and used for to kind of muffle any loud sounds that startling sounds that might happen in your home. It's a great idea. But the fan might have a light on it the power light, same with sometimes aren't light switches are like that now or the humidifier. Yeah, so I just get a bit of electrical tape, it's black. And it's kind of small and use that over tough night. If you tried duct tape doesn't really work. And either just masking tape either just paint your state and so and if you have a clock, does anyone still have a clock in their room, they often came in red colors or orange.
Heather Erickson 43:16
And those ones are actually the best color of light for for sleep. If a good meet feels like they need a nightlight, and you can't take that away on them. You know, don't just rush out and yank their nightlight from them. But you can find an orange ball to put in there that is that is best, you know, and maybe you can eat them out a bit. We should talk about sleep like we love it. It's not a punishment. It's something we all need. And we want and we want this for you. And now I get to go to bed or now you get to go to bed. And many times I've had my children say I need to go to bed before I knew that they did. So it's pretty cool when your kid sort of asks to go to bed. And that is not how it is all the time because they're real children. But it can happen. Yeah. Okay.
Patricia Sung 44:08
So as we wrap up, I think you've given us a lot to think about of just so many ways that we can start to move towards sleep. But for the moms who are like, Please help, please help me. How can they reach out to you and find how to connect with you and get help with like, dig in and get real help getting their families towards sleep?
Heather Erickson 44:28
Yeah, I would love it if if moms came to my site, and I have I've got a couple of free offers on there. See what you think get on my mailing list because I send out a tiny, I'm calling it a short and sweet sound show. It's like a tiny tiny podcast, it's going to be encouraging and it's about like under five minutes. Just basically to encourage moms to keep on going a little boost for us in the day. You can find me on my website. It's my best plate So I'm on social media as well. But I, it's not my preference. And I love to, you know, talk to people be real talk to real people. And so it would be great if you chatted with me on my site or emailed me from there.
Patricia Sung 45:20
So remind us again, what the website is.
Heather Erickson 45:22
Yes. So it's www.sleepandbeyondconsulting.com Okay.
Patricia Sung 45:31
So you got some resources on there for big kids in their bed, like overcoming bedtime battles, you got resources there for moms who have babies expecting baby. So at any point that you need support in this sleep journey, and there's got you covered. So let's jump into our lightning round question. So you don't have to explain anything, you just fill in the blank. And let's start with number one. The best thing that I've read or listened to recently is,
Heather Erickson 45:58
I feel like there's a listen to and it feels like it might be yours, but I can't remember. Like it was lately. Because very lately, let me just say,
Patricia Sung 46:07
most people with ease, you're like, Hold on, let me get my phone out. And they're like looking through their Audible account or their podcast.
Heather Erickson 46:16
That's what I'm doing. Oh, my gosh. So phone, come on. I have a backup plan. If I can't find this, there you are right on the top in a different place. But no, I'm not gonna say that. But I know what I'm gonna say. The best thing that I listened to lately was my child singing and humming in our home. Oh,
Patricia Sung 46:44
number two, my most boring about me. Fact is
Heather Erickson 46:50
I prefer baking over cooking. I mean, I prefer cooking over baking.
Patricia Sung 46:56
Number three, when I'm having a rough day, my go to quote song poem, book, podcast activity, whatever it is. It's
Heather Erickson 47:03
a tie between a guided meditation that I listened to a story about a forest, or a little, like 10 minutes worth of stretches that I do.
Patricia Sung 47:18
Number four, don't tell anyone I
Heather Erickson 47:22
recently got a speeding ticket.
Patricia Sung 47:26
I have a few of those. Number five, if I had a magic fairy wand for one spell, I would have
Heather Erickson 47:34
all expectant moms be super valued in our society, as well as supported by a village, a real village.
Patricia Sung 47:45
And number six, my best piece of advice for mamas with ADHD is Be easy
Heather Erickson 47:50
on yourself about getting sleep, and just see if you can get a bit more and notice the difference in your concentration or your mood. Well,
Patricia Sung 48:02
thank you, Heather. I'm like, every time I hear you talk, you speak so soothingly then I'm like, No wonder your sleep coach. I was like, just being in Your presence is so calming. I'm like he was like you were built for it. So I so appreciate you being here.
Heather Erickson 48:19
Thank you. You're welcome. Thanks so much for having me. Patricia. This was great.
Patricia Sung 48:25
For more resources, classes and community head over to my website. motherhoodinadhd.com.