Postpartum Anxiety, PPD, & D-MER from Breastfeeding Relief with Bethany #231
Meet my friend Bethany Lovern, host of Breastfeeding Relief with Bethany. In this episode, Bethany and I chat about struggles as a new mom, including breastfeeding, Postpartum Depression (PPD), Postpartum Anxiety (PPA), and Dysphoric Milk Ejection Reflex or D-MER.
Bethany shares:
In this episode, Patricia shares how she struggled with her ADHD symptoms after becoming a mom, leading to sleepless nights spent searching for support online. Though initially unwilling, she was later prompted by her faith to start a podcast supporting moms with ADHD.
Patricia and I chat about our personal experiences with postpartum depression and anxiety. We also delve into Dysphoric Milk Ejection Reflex (D-MER), which is described as a sudden mood change when milk lets down. I share how, as a first time mom, I constantly tracked feedings, sleep and milestones, worrying over my son’s well being. We both emphasize the need for finding community for shared struggles, whether online or in-person.
Be sure to subscribe to the Breastfeeding Relief with Bethany Podcast!
Bethany’s website
Bethany’s instagram
Find our episode details here: Motherhood in ADHD Featuring Patricia
Welcome to the Best of Friends Series, where you are meeting a few of my friends in the podcast community. I’m sharing interviews that I have done on other friends’ podcasts. Not only do you get a new episode, I hope that you’ll find a few shows to add to your podcast queue. There’s a wide variety of topics coming your way, so keep an eye out for a new friend every other week of the summer.
Craving people who understand how you work instead of judging you???
Come hang out with me and other ADHD Moms in our weekly online community: Successful Mama Meetups!
Join here: patriciasung.com/meetup
Ready for a get away?
Watch this 2 min video of our last ADHD moms retreat! You’re invited to our next trip: October 11-13, 2024!
Links Mentioned in this episode
Bethany’s website
Bethany’s instagram
Stop Medusa Mom in her tracks with these 10 tips to calm down before you lose your cool!
Watch (or read) the free video here: patriciasung.com/medusa-mom
Patricia Sung 00:02
Are you overwhelmed by motherhood and barely keeping your head above water? Are you confused and frustrated by how all the other moms make it look so easy. You can figure out how to manage the chaos in your mind, your home, or your family. I get you mama, parenting with ADHD is hard. Here is your permission slip to let go of the Pinterest worthy visions of organization and structure fit for everyone else. Let's do life like our brains do life creatively, lovingly, and with all our might. When we embrace who we are and how our brains work, we can figure out how to live our lives successfully, and in turn, lead our families well, at the end of the day, we just want to be good moms. but spoiler alert, you are already a great mom. ADHD does not mean you're doomed to be a hot mess mama, you can rewrite your story from shame spiral success story. And I'll be right here beside you to cheer you on. Welcome to Motherhood in ADHD.
Patricia Sung 01:07
Hey there successful mama. It's your friend Patricia Sung. While I am on break for the next few weeks, I am bringing you some friends. This is my best of friends episode. And these are all interviews that I've done for other people's podcasts. First of all, thank you to these hosts for sharing their episode with us. And I want you to go in the show notes and see where do you find them go listen to their other episodes, put their show in your cue in your download list so that you have an extra friend to hang out with when you're cleaning or on a walk or riding in the car. Every time I am interviewed, I find myself often sharing very similar things. But there's always some nuances and new things that I'm like, wow, I have never shared that before. I've never talked about this in this way. And I can't wait for you to get a new flavor and perspective and
Patricia Sung 01:54
a new podcast friend to join you today. So listen to this episode on a friend's podcast. Go check them out and enjoy this best friend's episode. Today I'm sharing with you Breastfeeding Relief with Bethany.
Bethany Lovern 02:08
Hey Mama's. Welcome to Breastfeeding Relief with Bethany. We share incredible stories, tips and breastfeeding ideas to help on your journey. I'm your host Bethany Lovern, a lactation consultant and speech therapist who helps moms with breastfeeding. Not all breastfeeding stories are the same and we dive into those topics. Welcome to another episode of breastfeeding relief with Bethany today I have Patricia from motherhood and ADHD. Welcome to the podcast today. We are so excited to have you.
Patricia Sung 02:37
Thanks so much for having me. I can't wait. Yes.
Bethany Lovern 02:40
So let's go ahead and jump in. Tell us about yourself and how you started working specifically with moms with ADHD.
Patricia Sung 02:50
Ah, that was not my idea. I'll be honest. I am a teacher by trade. I taught middle school for many years. And so I just assumed that after I left teaching, when I had my eldest that I would end up getting back somewhere in like related with kids, because I love working with kids. I know what people think I'm crazy for loving middle school, but I love middle schoolers. They're hilarious. And as it would have like, I just struggled so much after I had my first son, and realizing how much my ADHD affected everything. And like, I was doing pretty great before like I had all my systems in place, and life was going fairly well.
Patricia Sung 03:35
And then you introduce this human who has absolute disregard for any of your plans or structure. Like it all fell apart. And I was up at like 3am Googling, like, how do you be a good mom with ADHD and I couldn't find hardly anything at the time. And so like, fast forward, when my youngest was about one, um, I am a like, a spiritual faith person. Like I have a really strong relationship with God. And he clearly told me like a traditional need you start a podcast or moms with ADHD and I was like, no, thank God not interested. But I finally listened. And it turns out it was a good idea. And that is how I very on you willingly ended up here. Yeah, no,
Bethany Lovern 04:26
I think that's good. I mean, I felt the Lord put on my heart as well. Like you need to be working with moms, especially moms that their babies have tongue tie, because I felt the same way like our second son was tongue tied. I knew something was wrong. I felt like I wasn't being heard. And I just kept going down this rabbit hole and getting more certifications to figure out what was wrong with my son. And I was like, there's no reason that our son should be drooling constantly. And as a two year old, I'm changing his shirt five times a day because he's his shirt. is soaked, he shouldn't be delayed with walking, you know. So I agree. It's kind of funny what the Lord puts on our heart sometimes.
Patricia Sung 05:09
Like, I'm an introvert. I spent my whole life like covering up all the struggles that I had to like, keep up with my ADHD and sort of come forward and be like, listen, internet, here's all my problems, let's discuss really was like a step of faith. It was not at all what I plan to do. So yeah. Scary journey. Sure.
Bethany Lovern 05:34
Absolutely. Life's a scary journey. So tickets you bought you brought up such a good topic that I feel we sweep under the rug we don't talk about and as first time moms, lots of us deal with postpartum depression. I definitely did. I didn't realize I have it. Had it. But I look back. I'm like, oh, yikes. That was a really scary time for me. I went from I was a therapist in nursing homes doing management. I ran seven nursing homes had 60 therapists under me that I was running. Then I have our first son and I felt like the phone wasn't ringing. No one was calling me I wasn't needed. My husband went back to work after a week. And I was just sitting there crying constantly. Because I was like, nobody needs me. Even though this baby needed me. That was our plan. We wanted kids. Right? So I feel like a lot of moms really struggle with this specifically with the dysphoric milk ejection reflexes. So can you talk to us a little bit about that?
Patricia Sung 06:44
Yeah, so it's short. It's called d-mer. And what happens is, right around when your milk lets down, you have this like, I mean, like, the best way to describe it is like this awful feeling. And it's different for everybody. Like some people, it's more like, sadness. Some people, it's like a feeling in the pit of their stomach. For some people, it's more like, like suicidal thoughts or anger. Like there's a pretty wide range of like reactions that come through. But it's like a drastic change when your milk lets down in the way that you feel. And I had no idea this was a thing and had been dealing with it for months, I think I didn't actually learn about it until my my son was probably like six or seven months old, like it was a long time.
Patricia Sung 07:35
And to know that, like, there's not something wrong with me like this is a physical change, it has to do with your hormones were like they don't fully understand it, it's really not been researched a whole lot. But they believe it has to do with like when your milk was stolen, you can get a lot of oxytocin, which is something that suppresses the dopamine, which regulates your mood. And so they think this is all connected. And it's really no, like, it's a physical thing, it is not a like choice that you're making. It's not like you could just copy your way through this, like it's a physical change in your body that is moving your mood around. And to know that it's not you, there's not something wrong with you, makes it a lot easier to deal with, even though you really you can't really think about it in terms of like, you can't stop it from happening.
Patricia Sung 08:25
But you can then deal with it and knowing it's not like a huge thing, because where I think a lot of moms struggle just just like Oh, cool. But then specifically was this, like, when you don't know that you're like, this is a thing that happens. It's not just you, you start to think that it's your problem, there's something wrong with you, and you're broken. And we go down this rabbit hole of like, what's wrong with me. So we can say like, oh, this is a physical change that happens in our body and in happens to affect me in this way, then you can start to find the solutions for it. And you're not spending all your energy beating yourself up and set up the energy towards going to about this. So that's kind of a long winded answer, but that's the gist of it. So
Bethany Lovern 09:11
that's perfect. And you know, I feel like as moms we sit in struggle and loneliness and sadness by ourselves, and we don't reach out for help, right. And so you know, Mama's I want to let you know that I'm here for you. Patricia is here for you. You know, specifically I have where I run for 30 days, you can come work with me one on one. Through an app, you can send me all of your questions, all your emotions, all your sadness, and especially I feel I get the most response between two and 4am. Because we feel nobody else is awake. We can't call and talk to anyone. You aren't alone. And so please send me those messages at two and 4am. I want to encourage you I want to help you I want to listen to you. I want you to feel supported not only as a mom on this new journey, but also with your breastfeeding questions and support all that kind of stuff. Patricia, I know you help moms and do some meetups, can you talk about that? Like how you also support mamas during this period? Yeah. So
Patricia Sung 10:21
we have a community called Successful Mama Meetups, and it's all moms who have ADHD. So we're in it together and talking about that hard stuff. And it is hardly when you think about here you are at 3am with this baby, you're half asleep. And then you are like, hit with all this emotion. And you do feel like you're the only person awake. And perhaps you're staring at your partner shooting them daggers as they peacefully sleep while you are they're awake. And now your hormones are already a mess in the first place. But like if you do happen to have de mer, like, my stomach would just drop and it would turn and I was just like, awful. And like, yes, it is a quick reaction. Like, it is something that like moves on within like a couple of minutes. But the problem is when you're sitting up at 3am Do you move on from things in two to three minutes? No, you're like sitting there stewing on it and frustrated and feeling awful. It's like you, you don't have to stay there. You can find communities like either one of ours.
Patricia Sung 11:24
We're like, Here are other people who get what it's like to be that way. There's other people saying yes, I've dealt with that. Yes. Like, I hear you. Yes, my house is a disaster. Yes, my car looks like McDonald's trash can overflowed. And it like, when you have other people there to say like, I get it, it's happened to me, or even if not that exact same thing happened to me, but like, something similar, and there's like not a judgment there. There's so much freedom in starting to heal. Because again, you're not in taking ownership of all that problem. It's now a shared burden. And then you get this crowdsourcing effect of like, Hey, I'm really struggling with this can anybody got ideas on this and the other moms can start to chime in and support you. And this is really beautiful thing that we don't have enough in the community of moms.
Patricia Sung 12:15
So like to have a place where you can go meet and like, I'm not exactly sure how your community is set up. Like for me, we've got designated times where we meet together on Zoom, but we also have a Slack community. So like you can be in there and like message each other, like any time but we also have like specific times where you can see somebody who like makes complete sentences most of the time and like hear that you're like you're not the only one is such a healing part of our journeys. And I think that is a really big struggle for moms is not knowing that you're that you have that space that is safe for you to say like, I'm not okay, I need help. And knowing that you're not gonna get judged for that, or looked down upon or somebody's gonna call CPS on you like that safety is really important.
Bethany Lovern 13:04
I agree. 100%. I know, I went to a Lactation Group in my community when I first had our son. And I remember I missed the first one I had decided to go to because I had slept in and I didn't realize it was like a common goal. And I remember just crying the rest of the day. Like I have to wait another week because I slept in but of course my baby slept so I shouldn't be happy. But I just remember being like so so upset. But once I finally got into that community, yes, it's a breastfeeding community. Right. And so it's not for all moms. Even though you're welcome.
Bethany Lovern 13:41
If you are, you know, pumping even if you're doing formula, you're welcome, but I you might not feel welcome. So that's why I love your community, right? But it's so nice to be like, I'm going crazy. My baby's not sleeping. I remember someone being like, Honey, it's okay. It's called the four month sleep regression. And I was like, Oh, thank goodness, I thought I was dying. Right? So, you know, it is so nice to have and especially if you have a good facilitator like Patricia you know, we it's not just like maybe a Facebook message board and anyone can say anything they want you know, it's a safe space. We're going to we're going to be there with you. We're going to walk there with you. We're going to give you good advice, researched advice from us not just hanging out on Facebook and anyone says anything they want so
Patricia Sung 14:33
a lot of people have a lot of opinions about parenting so yeah
Bethany Lovern 14:38
self many so So as a first time mom you know we're we get worried about I remember specifically is my son getting enough sleep is he getting enough to eat I know I have the app and I'm like constantly clicking it like when I started breastfeeding when I stopped when he started sleeping, how many naps he was taking right I had all the I clicked all the things with our second one, I didn't have enough time I stopped clicking. Um, you know, we can't track everything when you got, you know, I had a 17 month run around a newborn COVID started and we sold our house. So I did not have time for apps, but moms 10% of us will suffer from postpartum depression. And so that's also kind of goes with that de near. A little bit different, right? But when do we finally need to say I'm not just being a little worried, I really need to go get some help.
Patricia Sung 15:38
Um, I think like, this is it's, it's hard to know. And I'll be honest, like, like you said, like, you're like, I didn't really realize I was struggling that much. And I also did not realize I was struggling that much. Thankfully, while I was pregnant, I had a friend who said, Hey, I really struggled with postpartum anxiety. And this is what it looked like. So I had something to, like latch on to have like a real experience of what that was like. And knowing that it was an it was a thing that actually existed.
Patricia Sung 16:10
But I think it was probably about six weeks before I realized that I was really struggling. And it was probably about eight weeks till I asked for help. And even in the grand scheme of things like that's still a short amount of time, when you think about postpartum depression and anxiety can last two, three years, it's not a you know, fourth trimester isolated incident. So part one is like, you probably aren't going to know, for a while, because everything is so hard. All the hormones are everywhere. And that's where like having those people to support you really matters. So like when I think back to how much I struggled my first when it came to my second, like, I was already seeing my psychiatrist and saying, like, what do I need to do to prepare? Like, we started titrating antidepressants at the very end of my pregnancy so that I hopefully wouldn't deal with it.
Patricia Sung 16:57
And I didn't, I didn't have issues with my second. So like, there's, like hope to know that you don't have to, you don't have to have that every time like you can ask for help. And it can be better. It may not promise you, you know, unicorns and rainbows. But like, there is hope there to know, like, Who were your support systems that can keep an eye out. Like I think, honestly, my husband was like, I think something's not right here like in of course, is like very tentative, like, I don't want you to cry anymore.
Patricia Sung 17:27
But I also want to talk about this. So that's part one is having that support system there. Like, literally you just need one person who you can talk to about it. But if this is you in the moment, and you don't have that, which is a very big reality for a lot of us. When you hit that point where you realize more often than not, like that's usually like my catchphrase, for a lot of things. My gauge is more often than not like, if we're trying to make a new habit or goal is more often than not, if we're we want to know if like this is a problem is a problem. Or often the nine is more often are your thoughts spinning out of control, and you're anxious and you're panicking about what if, what if, what if, oh, my goodness is, is my baby, not breathing.
Patricia Sung 18:15
Like if you're more often than not on that side of things than enjoying it? That's when we know like, hey, this isn't. This is this is something we want to look into. Like basically like once you hit 51% we want to do something about it. Because as long as we're like, as a mom, especially as a new mom, everything is hard. Everything is different. All the hormones are terrible. Nobody's sleeping like it's a hot mess. But as soon as we realize this is more disastrous, more hard more, anytime more than it's not. That's when it's time to ask for. What if there was a way to put together your plan for the week so that you actually wanted to do the planning, you wanted to show up and figure it out? Because now your day is smoother, easier, calmer, it flows? You're not surprised by that field trip or that dentist's appointment, you know that that's coming? What have you had support to make the plan so you can actually follow through on it and feel good about yourself. This is the place to be to get your ish together, you are invited to successful mama meetups. It's a twist on productivity and community. It's time set aside to make your weekly plan followed by hanging out with other moms with ADHD who get you so you don't need to earn the fun.
Patricia Sung 19:39
You're intertwining them in this same event. So you want to show up every week for just a few dollars a week. You'll have your plan set so that you can accomplish the tasks you need to get done. You know, when you're trying to work on your next business idea. Do that fun craft with your kids. It's been sitting on the counter for months. You know the answer to the dreaded what's for dinner? or you are present in the conversation with your kids after school or at dinner, because you aren't a ball of stress, you can take care of you, when you have a plan. When you have this, you feel confident, capable, energetic, hopeful, relieved, like you can breathe. So sign up now at patriciasung.com/meetup. And welcome to the successful mama community. We also have a Slack group where you can connect with other moms because this isn't just about the time that we're together. This is about building your support system. So join us every week. Sign up now at patriciasung.com/meetup.
Bethany Lovern 20:41
And I know for me, I felt like it was hard to ask for help specifically, because I was now a stay at home mom. So what else was I supposed to be doing? I didn't have to clock in and out of work. I didn't have anywhere to be but that house and so I felt bad asking for help. Even though I I definitely needed more sleep, you know, but I felt mad if the dishes weren't done, the dinner wasn't done on time when my husband entered the house. I just I just felt awful. Like, I didn't feel like I could ask for help. And that's more than likely just my personality. But I know other moms are listening to this. And I bet they feel the exact same way that you just don't feel like you can ask for help. But one of the best things so with our second son, I did ask for more help. But specifically
Bethany Lovern 21:31
from my husband, because I wanted more sleep. He's a night owl. I am not a night owl. I do not care for nighttime. And of course like us mamas we go into that witching hour starting at four o'clock. You know, from four to seven, we always put our kids at seven. Yeah. And the biggest piece of advice I give breastfeeding moms is pump once a day, usually in the morning, because that's when you have the most milk is you know, if your baby is slept for four to six hours at night, and then you breastfeed in the morning pump. And then I would have fresh breast milk for him to give in a bottle at night.
Bethany Lovern 22:07
So I, you know, we would lay our son down that, you know, was 17 months, and then I would go to bed as well, which I you know, kind of hated because that was my time with my husband. But I was like I have to sleep if I'm gonna be a good person if he's up every two hours. And so please let me sleep you give the pump bottle and let me get a good four to six hour stretch of sleep. And he would let me like I would he wouldn't wake me up to tell me that everyone was in bed, but he would put the monitor next to my bed. So if I woke up, I would either stay here or I'd wake up and see the monitor to know, our baby wasn't then.
Patricia Sung 22:44
Yeah, and I think it's really important that you set the priorities of like, we're not going to be able to do all the things yes, we wish we could but we're not gonna be able to keep up with house and meals and like home cooked to goodness and like sleeping and brilliant activities for your toddler who is shaping their mind. And and like we can't do it all. So when you sit down either by yourself or with your partner and say what's the most important thing here, like sleep is one of them. And we did the same thing where I would go to bed after the last feed. And I would sleep through the like, next feed my husband would do that with a bottle and then I would get up for like the second one.
Patricia Sung 23:30
And that like, whoa, getting four hours of sleep straight or six hours of sleep straight is like a game changer, especially for people who have ADHD like we really struggle when we don't have our general health taking care of like the baseline of like, sleep. Somewhat nutritious food, like just the baseline we we struggle way more in our symptoms start to like really get out of control if we don't have those baselines covered. So when you can look at like, what's her? Like? We're not looking for thriving, or baseline of survival is like how much sleep do we need? What how can we get food in us? That's not, you know, three smooshed goal cracker goldfish crackers, and like a sandwich grasp, like, how do we take these basic, basic thing and get there? We don't have to do the full spa treatment.
Patricia Sung 24:26
Can we at least just squash them on her face and brush her teeth? Like where's the bare minimum for you? Because everybody's different? Sometimes be like, You know what, if I didn't brush my teeth today, I live and other people are like, if I don't brush my teeth three times a day, I feel like a mess. You know, it just depends on what you need. But where's that bare minimum that you and your partner can both be happy if it's the two of you or that you can function as a single mom and like get by because we cannot do all the things it is literally not possible.
Bethany Lovern 24:56
Exactly. But I do feel like in diagram slash society tells us we have to do all the things. We we just carry that burden like even I have kids in preschool now. And sometimes I feel like I carry that burden on my back. Why? Because I put it on my back, not because it was placed upon me. But because I have put it there. And sometimes when I start to get overwhelmed, I really think about like, Okay, I need, I just need to ask for help. And again, that's my personality, I have trouble asking for help. Here, honestly, time, everyone.
Patricia Sung 25:35
So
Bethany Lovern 25:36
ask for help. So even like I cook, I would say, 90% of the meals in this house, but I hate doing dishes. And so I tell my husband, please do the dishes. So to this day, it started when our son was young, he does the dishes. So even if he decides not to do the dishes tonight, and they're piling up, I don't get to get upset about it. Because it's not what I'm doing. I don't I don't say anything about it. I don't care that they aren't done. I know it's not my responsibility, and I don't care. But I know thy will be done. So it's ask for help and stuff that maybe you don't like to do, or you know, your partner enjoys or whatever, ask for help. And even let me tell you, all ladies love to come and rock babies. And they, you know, even like some of our neighbors like their kids were like in high school, and they were more than happy to come over and be like, can you just hold the baby, I would like to do X, Y or Z or take a shower or take a nap. And they were more than happy to do that. I felt awful laughs came but they're like, Oh, I will definitely come over and hold your baby while you take a shower. That is completely fine with me today.
Patricia Sung 26:48
I shall say one of the best gifts. I got one of my friends who also she had her kids were all like over the age of 10 at that point. And she was in school, she was back to school. So she would come over once a week. And she would study in my living room. And she was like my kids are at school I got to study, I will sit here and study. And as an experienced mom, she was like, I can rock a baby and study because she had slept. Because she was already getting her basic music. She's like, it's not a big deal to me. And like, I can look back now and see the yeah, my kids are now six and nine. If you wanted to hit me baby for a couple of hours. I could rock a baby and like study, I could rock a baby. And like write emails like, I can do that because I have experienced and I sleep. That gift that she gave me where she was like, just come and like, keep an eye out for him.
Patricia Sung 27:41
And half the time he slept the whole time she was there. But the fact that I could turn my brain off and not feel the responsibility weighing on me is that like I think we really don't give enough credit for ourselves as mom is that like constant like low level of alert that we have to keep this among. It takes a lot of energy. We don't realize how much it takes but it's always there. You always have the ear out is someone crying? You know what time is it when is snack time when is mealtime doing to get the kids in bed? Do I have dinner ready, all those things just low level run all the time. And they're big energy. So on our day, so if you can hand someone your baby for three hours while they're doing their thing that they would have been doing anyway, and you can nap or you can get something done or you can get in the shower. And to know that you don't have to worry at that point that this other person is perfectly capable of handling your baby for three hours. Like that is a beautiful gift.
Patricia Sung 28:38
And like you said like, when your kids get to high school you're excited to like jump in. Well, not always. I mean, some people just don't want a baby person per se but like, you know, there's a lot of gay people out there. They're happy to come in and snuggle a baby for a few hours because their babies are like looking at him like you know, they're 13 and smelly and you know, smelly Doritos and gym socks and like they're happy to do that for you. But we have to like you said we shouldn't be topless.
Bethany Lovern 29:07
Yeah, I love even where you said you know, you can turn your brain off and so I started showering at night because my husband was home and so I knew even if I heard the baby cry, or the Phantom cries that I heard so much of I didn't have to worry about it and I didn't have to jump out of the shower mid shampoo. And so anyways you know, it's it's good to be able to give that responsibility and I love how you're like just the baseline you know is it is all the time it's constant it's something I feel like we don't think about but I do feel like you're always like looking at the clock like what time is it or is it snack time? Do we need to be somewhere you know, even like they talked about that mom maths. We have to be at the park at noon. Let's start backing it up, you know, to like, 10am, we need everyone, let's start getting ready, I need to pack the snack, I need to get everyone diaper changed, I need to go the bathroom, you know, it's all the things, which I think is just so hard that I feel like men sometimes don't understand like how our brains work on how we need to get somewhere. And sometimes it's like, I feel like you just got up and got in the car. That's all you did.
Patricia Sung 30:27
Because they can't. Yeah, because we already did all the other things that were. And that like, I mean, honestly, that's a whole nother can of worms. But it is really important that we have those honest conversations with our partners. And if you don't feel comfortable, like having a third party help you like, I will say that like my husband, I have done counseling and having an outside party to just listen and be the objective. Voice of Reason is really helpful on both of our sides to know like, just because the other person feels this way, and you don't get it doesn't mean it's not valid. And like hearing that from somebody else is extremely important for both sides.
Patricia Sung 31:15
And like, I always try to go back to, even when my husband everybody has like, if this truly is the person that I'm spending the rest of my life with, this is my life partner, like, we both want the best we both want, like, for the whole family to be successful. So when you come at it from that position of like, I'm gonna give you the benefit of the doubt that you just said, that really dumb thing, and I want to punch you in the face, I'm gonna give you the medicine that out that you meant to well, like underneath that, and that you're like the same as like when we look at our kids behavior, it's communicating something to us.
Patricia Sung 31:50
Our partners are also communicating something to us. And we may not appreciate their method of communication, but they're communicating something to us. And like, what's that underlying need, that they're communicating? Is it that they really wish they had more time with you? Is it that they're like, frustrated from all their stressors, and it's being taken out on you, like, when you can start to dig in and look at, like, we're all trying to do our best, we all want our family to be successful, like assuming that you're in a, you know, a healthy relationship, like, how do we work at this together? From that angle, it does become a lot easier to find solutions, when you know, everybody's trying to get to the same place.
Bethany Lovern 32:31
Yeah, I love that advice so much. That's so good. Because it also makes me think about, you know, you and your husband, your partner, you know, you're right, we do all want the same thing. But you also have to remember I try to always keep this also in the back of my mind is one day, those kids are going to be out of my house. And so I still want my husband here. And for us to have date night and things in common and still be together after the kids leave it. It just makes me so sad. Like how many friends I have that after the kids go to college, they're looking at divorce, or, you know, we have a friend right now then he was like, well, after the kid graduated, I'm pretty sure I'm gone. And you're just like, oh, that just makes me so sad. You know?
Patricia Sung 33:19
Yeah, I mean, it's, I feel like motherhood is just such a, like a Mind Bender, where you look at like, in some ways, it just goes so fast. In other ways, it feels like this journey is never going to. And when you like, I think those parts of us are always like in disagreement with ourselves and like, it's going too fast, also disabled and like I want to cherish these moments, I want my kids to adore me still when they're like 25. But also, I really wanna strangle you right now. Like, when you're, when you have all those pieces of you that are arguing. To know that, like, it is hard. It really this is this is a whole the whole thing that we didn't understand before we got into it. And it's okay to feel like conflicting things at the same time. It's okay to be like, I love my baby. And I also really don't want to look at it right now. Like I just want to sleep and I just want to take care of myself, like you can be in both places at once. And that's okay, like that's a normal human emotion is that you can be struggling and still love your kids. You can think it's hard and still be like so glad that you have that. Like there's it doesn't have to be one or the other. Right. So,
Bethany Lovern 34:39
yeah, no, I love that you said that because I do feel like we feel conflicted. Like if we do not love our children 100% of the time. So, anyways, well, thank you so much for coming on. Why don't you let all of our mamas know how they can connect with you and please share about your podcast.
Patricia Sung 35:01
Yeah, I mean, I would love to meet every single mom who's listening today. Like, come say, Hi. I have a podcast also called motherhood in ADHD, where we're actually we're coming up on our fifth anniversary next week, this month, this month, this five years. So you can learn a lot more about like what ADHD looks like in women, how is it different as a mom like strategies and all to support you, and then come hang out and successful, no meetups, like, it's such a like giving community to like, have people that get you. And then if you are having one of those days where you're like, I am absolutely losing my mind. And I just, I can't anymore. I've got a free video on my website, that's like 10 ways to, like hold it together when you're losing it.
Patricia Sung 35:50
I call her Medusa mom when Medusa mom shows up and she's like, you know, the snakes are hissing and she's yelling at everybody, for like, if you're the one who like if you just associate, like you're just scrolling your phone all night and ignoring everybody, like when you're in those places where you're very overwhelmed. This is like 10 ways to calm down and like center and and be present in the moment so that you can show up as the mom that you want to. And that's patriciasung.com/calm.
Patricia Sung 36:16
So I am just really thankful that you invited me here because I think this period of time where you are breastfeeding, giving so much of your of yourself to your family, like literally physically giving of yourself. It's so much and we don't talk enough about how hard it is and the postpartum anxiety and the postpartum depression and knowing that, like there's a space here where moms can feel safe. Like that's really beautiful. So thank you for thank you for having me, because this, I will say that this is one of the hardest things I've ever done in my life was that like, year after my oldest I was born and I don't want other moms to struggle for as long as like, reach out. Please ask for help. You are not the only one who's struggling. You're not a bad one. Please reach out.
Bethany Lovern 37:04
Yeah, well, thank you so much. I know you're gonna help us so many mamas. Please go join her community, especially if you feel like you're past the breastfeeding part. Even if not, you can still join right? But we just want the best for you. We want you to be set up for success and have as much support as you can. So thanks so much for coming on today.
Patricia Sung 37:27
Thanks for having me.
Bethany Lovern 37:28
Thank you so much for listening in. If you love this episode, it would mean so much if you would share it with another mama or post on social media and tag me. I want to personally thank you for wanting to help other mamas you got this. I'm rooting for your breastfeeding journey.
Patricia Sung 37:45
For more resources, classes and community head over to my website motherhoodinadhd.com.